Church Sermons Exceed Noise Ordinance

Gardener · Dec 12, 2015

spud_meister said:
From what distance though? I live across the road from a church. If I could measure their sermons at 60db from my bedroom, I'd definitely be making a complaint. However:

.

But what about them complaining about all the worship services coming from your bedroom? It works both ways, you know.

Word on the street has it that female voices emanating from your bedroom invoke the name of God with great regularity and often times with an increasing sense of urgency before their voices tail off in an oddly satisfied way.

Mr Person · Dec 16, 2015

bicycleman said:
Church slapped with criminal summons over worship service 'noise' | Fox News

To measure 60 decibels, you need a special kind of equipment. I doubt the backwoods country sheriff has that kind of equipment nor the smarts to know how to use it.

From the article you linked: "60 decibels – which is about the same noise level of a dishwasher."

bicycleman said:
No, this is blatant harassment of a church and a violation of the First Amendment.

I suppose if this were a mosque, it would be alright for the morning prayer call to exceed 60 decibels, though.

They're discriminating against Christians but wouldn't against a muslims? Because liberals are poopy, amirite?

/sarc off

(Note: this is a red parish in a red-state. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jefferson_Parish,_Louisiana#Politics )

Basically, you seem to be grossly distorting what the article says.

The trouble started back in August when the small evangelical congregation announced plans to expand its existing sanctuary – located within a subdivision.

However, that meant the church had to temporarily relocate its two Sunday morning worship services to an enclosed outdoor tent. The church applied for, and was granted a permit to erect the structure.

On Aug. 9, a neighbor called authorities to complain about the noise levels.

On Aug. 18, the church was told by the sheriff’s office that any sounds before 8:50 a.m. had to be kept below 60 decibels. They also told the church they could not set up for the Sunday service until after 8:50 a.m.

Also, at 51 seconds into the embedded video, there's a still shot of a band playing in that tent.

While the 60 decibel limit is indeed quieter than necessary, that doesn't tell us anything about how loud they were actually being when the neighbors repeatedly called the cops over noise disturbances.

Either the neighbors have a vendetta OR these people were being way louder than 60 decibels with their preaching and their band performances. But you simply cannot claim to know how loud or quiet they were actually being.

Mr Person · Dec 16, 2015

Mr Person said:
While the 60 decibel limit is indeed quieter than necessary,

I now take that back without editing out of the post.

As other people pointed out... the ordinance actually refers to the 60db dishwasher-grade noise being heard on the complaining property. It does not state that the sound be 60 db at the source.

Fox News Opinion: America's least trusted ranting....

Kal'Stang · Dec 16, 2015

So....jack hammers and lawnmowers can be used at 8am but a church sermons can't be started until after 8:50am. Something is a bit wrong with that. Note: Chart at post 21 by SMTA shows lawnmowers to be at 90Db and a jackhammer at 100.

Mr Person · Dec 16, 2015

Kal'Stang said:
So....jack hammers and lawnmowers can be used at 8am but a church sermons can't be started until after 8:50am. Something is a bit wrong with that.

Note: Chart at post 21 by SMTA shows lawnmowers to be at 90Db and a jackhammer at 100.

I don't think that conclusion can fairly be drawn unless there is in fact evidence that people have been mowing lawns at 8 am, and that their neighbors complained to the police, and that the police refused to do anything. I mean..the church's lawyer said "The parish allows things like lawn mowers and jackhammers starting at 8 a.m. on Sunday while placing these burdensome restrictions on the church," but that's zealous argument in a client's favor, not a solid fact.

I also think the entire spin in this Fox Opinion piece is off: we're talking about what sounds like a borderline backwoods Louisiana dispute. I seriously doubt that this is about discriminating against churches in the sense of going after Christians.

If I were to guess, it would be either (a) the neighbors really are telling the truth and these people were being loud, or (b) this actually has to do with some kind of interpersonal or inter-church dispute. Maybe the neighbors are pissed off Roman Catholics, for example.

shrubnose · Dec 16, 2015

bicycleman said:
Church slapped with criminal summons over worship service 'noise' | Fox News

To measure 60 decibels, you need a special kind of equipment. I doubt the backwoods country sheriff has that kind of equipment nor the smarts to know how to use it. No, this is blatant harassment of a church and a violation of the First Amendment.

I suppose if this were a mosque, it would be alright for the morning prayer call to exceed 60 decibels, though.

Click to expand...

Why do you say that? What's your problem? Fill us in.

Kal'Stang · Dec 16, 2015

Mr Person said:
I don't think that conclusion can fairly be drawn unless there is in fact evidence that people have been mowing lawns at 8 am, and that their neighbors complained to the police, and that the police refused to do anything. I mean..the church's lawyer said "The parish allows things like lawn mowers and jackhammers starting at 8 a.m. on Sunday while placing these burdensome restrictions on the church," but that's zealous argument in a client's favor, not a solid fact.

It would be a solid fact if there is a law/ordinance that makes exceptions. Also, its pretty self evident if the same people are always using lawnmowers on Sundays. Unless those people are in the same boat as this church then that in itself is factual evidence.

Mr Person said:
I also think the entire spin in this Fox Opinion piece is off: we're talking about what sounds like a borderline backwoods Louisiana dispute. I seriously doubt that this is about discriminating against churches in the sense of going after Christians.

If I were to guess, it would be either (a) the neighbors really are telling the truth and these people were being loud, or (b) this actually has to do with some kind of interpersonal or inter-church dispute. Maybe the neighbors are pissed off Roman Catholics, for example.

I'm sure that there is some spin going on. I don't know of a single bit of media out there that doesn't have spin in it. The real question though is just how much is actual spin and how much is truth?

Also another little side note: In my experience most noise ordinances end at 6am, 7am at the latest since that is generally the time that people are getting up and going to work. Why is this particular ordinance going to 8:50am?

shrubnose · Dec 16, 2015

Mr Person said:
I don't think that conclusion can fairly be drawn unless there is in fact evidence that people have been mowing lawns at 8 am, and that their neighbors complained to the police, and that the police refused to do anything. I mean..the church's lawyer said

"The parish allows things like lawn mowers and jackhammers starting at 8 a.m. on Sunday

Click to expand...

while placing these burdensome restrictions on the church," but that's zealous argument in a client's favor, not a solid fact.

I also think the entire spin in this Fox Opinion piece is off: we're talking about what sounds like a borderline backwoods Louisiana dispute. I seriously doubt that this is about discriminating against churches in the sense of going after Christians.

If I were to guess, it would be either (a) the neighbors really are telling the truth and these people were being loud, or (b) this actually has to do with some kind of interpersonal or inter-church dispute. Maybe the neighbors are pissed off Roman Catholics, for example.

I question this.

Does anyone on this forum start cutting grass at 8:00 AM when it's wet with dew?

How many construction projects work on Sunday?

Ikari · Dec 16, 2015

bicycleman said:
Church slapped with criminal summons over worship service 'noise' | Fox News

To measure 60 decibels, you need a special kind of equipment. I doubt the backwoods country sheriff has that kind of equipment nor the smarts to know how to use it. No, this is blatant harassment of a church and a violation of the First Amendment.

I suppose if this were a mosque, it would be alright for the morning prayer call to exceed 60 decibels, though.

It is a law. Of course, there are far too many laws and the government no longer protects the people with their law enforcement. They'll use this as an excuse to serve hefty fines because the government loves this form of fundraising.

clownboy · Dec 16, 2015

Kal'Stang said:
So....jack hammers and lawnmowers can be used at 8am but a church sermons can't be started until after 8:50am. Something is a bit wrong with that. Note: Chart at post 21 by SMTA shows lawnmowers to be at 90Db and a jackhammer at 100.

Neither can be used around here before 9am. Probably the same in that county.

clownboy · Dec 16, 2015

Kal'Stang said:
Also another little side note: In my experience most noise ordinances end at 6am, 7am at the latest since that is generally the time that people are getting up and going to work. Why is this particular ordinance going to 8:50am?

Don't know where you've been living, but in all the Western states, only construction noise by permit may begin at 7am, all other noise is restricted until 9am. The ordinance isn't "going to 8:50am". The ordinance is 9am, the sheriff asks the church to not start setting up until 8:50.

Kal'Stang · Dec 16, 2015

clownboy said:
Don't know where you've been living, but in all the Western states, only construction noise by permit may begin at 7am, all other noise is restricted until 9am. The ordinance isn't "going to 8:50am". The ordinance is 9am, the sheriff asks the church to not start setting up until 8:50.

I live in a western state. I see people mowing lawns around here at around 7am. Same when I lived in eastern Oregon.

clownboy · Dec 16, 2015

Kal'Stang said:
I live in a western state. I see people mowing lawns around here at around 7am. Same when I lived in eastern Oregon.

If you check out your local noise ordinance you'll see that's not allowed. Do people do it? Yes. It lasts until the neighbors complain to compliance. Permitted construction is generally excepted and may start no earlier than 7am.

For instance, there is a small strip of city park right next to my house. They start off the summer months mowing the lawn at 7am. Then I complain to code compliance and they return to starting at 9am.

Mr Person · Dec 16, 2015

clownboy said:
Neither can be used around here before 9am. Probably the same in that county.

MA.... I typically don't hear any such things until around 9am. Construction crews in residential areas sometimes get going a little earlier but not by much.

Mr Person · Dec 16, 2015

Kal'Stang said:
Also another little side note: In my experience most noise ordinances end at 6am, 7am at the latest since that is generally the time that people are getting up and going to work. Why is this particular ordinance going to 8:50am?

Well, it wasn't entirely clear to me that the attorney was saying that there is an ordinance that allows lawnmowers at 8 am vs. people often use lawnmowers at 8 AM despite any ordinance but nobody complains to the police about it....

Either way, around here, I never hear anything like lawnmowers or jackhammers until around 9am. I haven't bothered to look up the local ordinances because the neighbors haven't been jerks.

"Here" being Melrose, MA

nota bene · Dec 16, 2015

Gardener said:
But what about them complaining about all the worship services coming from your bedroom? It works both ways, you know.

Word on the street has it that female voices emanating from your bedroom invoke the name of God with great regularity and often times with an increasing sense of urgency before their voices tail off in an oddly satisfied way.

Tail off? Why, indeed, they do! :lamo

bicycleman · Dec 16, 2015

clownboy said:
If you check out your local noise ordinance you'll see that's not allowed. Do people do it? Yes. It lasts until the neighbors complain to compliance. Permitted construction is generally excepted and may start no earlier than 7am.

For instance, there is a small strip of city park right next to my house. They start off the summer months mowing the lawn at 7am. Then I complain to code compliance and they return to starting at 9am.

Back when I lived in the city and long before caller ID, a neighbor had a very annoying barking dog. My dad would call him on the phone late at night and hang up as soon as the guy answered the phone. This guy had to get up and answer the phone because he was a fireman. He soon got the message. This same guy had a son, who rode a motorcycle, who would leave early for work. He would sit outside the house for a half hour, gunning the engine. My dad then went out at 6 AM and started cutting the grass. If there was no grass to be cut, he would start up the chain saw. There were no noise ordinances back then, only noisy neighbors getting even.

bicycleman · Dec 16, 2015

shrubnose said:
Why do you say that? What's your problem? Fill us in.

To break it down simpler so those on the far left can see it, it means that this county is discriminating against evangelical Christians, and more than likely wouldn't bat an eye if a mosque were doing the same. It's called selective enforcement. Is the sheriff a Muslim?

clownboy · Dec 16, 2015

bicycleman said:
To break it down simpler so those on the far left can see it, it means that this county is discriminating against evangelical Christians, and more than likely wouldn't bat an eye if a mosque were doing the same. It's called selective enforcement. Is the sheriff a Muslim?

To be honest I don't think that's what's happening here. The church folks are being assholes and are bothering the neighbors. Nowhere in the Bible does it require the word be preached at volume. They are holding services in a freakin' tent in the middle of a residential area - clear violation of the golden rule.

bicycleman · Dec 16, 2015

Mr Person said:
From the article you linked: "60 decibels – which is about the same noise level of a dishwasher."

hey're discriminating against Christians but wouldn't against a muslims? Because liberals are poopy, amirite?

/sarc off

(Note: this is a red parish in a red-state. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jefferson_Parish,_Louisiana#Politics )

Basically, you seem to be grossly distorting what the article says.

The trouble started back in August when the small evangelical congregation announced plans to expand its existing sanctuary – located within a subdivision.

However, that meant the church had to temporarily relocate its two Sunday morning worship services to an enclosed outdoor tent. The church applied for, and was granted a permit to erect the structure.

On Aug. 9, a neighbor called authorities to complain about the noise levels.

On Aug. 18, the church was told by the sheriff’s office that any sounds before 8:50 a.m. had to be kept below 60 decibels. They also told the church they could not set up for the Sunday service until after 8:50 a.m.

Also, at 51 seconds into the embedded video, there's a still shot of a band playing in that tent.

While the 60 decibel limit is indeed quieter than necessary, that doesn't tell us anything about how loud they were actually being when the neighbors repeatedly called the cops over noise disturbances.

Either the neighbors have a vendetta OR these people were being way louder than 60 decibels with their preaching and their band performances. But you simply cannot claim to know how loud or quiet they were actually being.

Red state, blue state, there are folks of all political persuasions in every state.

It is amazing that you take so many words to describe what you think I said when I merely wrote one sentence. Let me write some more. The article doesn't state it, but my question still stands. Is this enforcement only directed towards Christians, or if Muslims were making noise, would they be hit up with heavy-handed enforcement as well?

SMTA · Dec 16, 2015

nota bene said:
Tail off? Why, indeed, they do! :lamo

You should indeed pray more quietly.........Ten Hail Mary's for your transgressions here.

Bad girl.

bicycleman · Dec 16, 2015

clownboy said:
To be honest I don't think that's what's happening here. The church folks are being assholes and are bothering the neighbors. Nowhere in the Bible does it require the word be preached at volume. They are holding services in a freakin' tent in the middle of a residential area - clear violation of the golden rule.

Yeah, that's a good possibility, too. I have run into those types standing on the corner, preaching fire and brimstone and how everybody was going to hell. I have confronted those types, telling them they are scaring people off. The Bible says don't make a big show of your praying. If you must pray, go into a closet and pray silently. If this church is a holy roller church, that could explain why they are so noisy. I know for a fact that when you bring in a band and amplifiers, you are going to exceed any noise ordinance. The neighbors may have a legit case, here, but like I indicated in my OP, I hope this ordinance is being enforced equally for all religions.

Mr Person · Dec 19, 2015

bicycleman said:
No, this is blatant harassment of a church and a violation of the First Amendment. I suppose if this were a mosque, it would be alright for the morning prayer call to exceed 60 decibels, though.

bicycleman said:
Red state, blue state, there are folks of all political persuasions in every state. It is amazing that you take so many words to describe what you think I said when I merely wrote one sentence. Let me write some more. The article doesn't state it, but my question still stands. Is this enforcement only directed towards Christians, or if Muslims were making noise, would they be hit up with heavy-handed enforcement as well?

Both posts make a claim that this is discrimination against Christians. You attempt to back up that claim by asking a counter-factual hypothetical question about what would happen if it were a mosque.

That makes no sense. My response remains the same.

bicycleman · Dec 24, 2015

Mr Person said:
Both posts make a claim that this is discrimination against Christians. You attempt to back up that claim by asking a counter-factual hypothetical question about what would happen if it were a mosque.

That makes no sense. My response remains the same.

Haven't been here in awhile. Just came back to see if somebody has responded to any of my posts. I see the usual drivel from the left, all in denial about how Christians are more and more being discriminated against at the expense of other religions like Mooslims that seem to get a pass all the time.

EdwinWillers · Dec 24, 2015

bicycleman said:
Church slapped with criminal summons over worship service 'noise' | Fox News

To measure 60 decibels, you need a special kind of equipment. I doubt the backwoods country sheriff has that kind of equipment nor the smarts to know how to use it. No, this is blatant harassment of a church and a violation of the First Amendment.

I suppose if this were a mosque, it would be alright for the morning prayer call to exceed 60 decibels, though.

FWIW, gone seem to be the days of what I'd consider "normal" church services. For example, my brother attends a church where they actually hand out ear plugs as you enter the auditorium - and trust me - they're necessary.

My wife and I attended a church for awhile where the music was so loud you couldn't even hear yourself singing.

In today's culture, "worship" seems to be more about rousing entertainment than it does anything else. Just my opinion of course, but it doesn't surprise me an iota that there are churches out there whose "services" are so loud they bother the neighbors - or violate local noise ordinances. It doesn't surprise me a bit.

That same church we attended? Not only did the production on stage drown out our singing, but they kept lighting so low you couldn't read your own bibles, and during prayers, they felt it necessary to play music, which we found very disruptive. Whether intended or not, we found it a church that, for all practical purposes didn't allow singing, didn't allow reading your bible, and didn't allow prayer.

A very weird [unintended?] consequence of today's modern church's desire to entertain those in the pews - and their desire to be entertained.

Church Sermons Exceed Noise Ordinance

Gardener

free market communist

Mr Person

A Little Bitter

Mr Person

A Little Bitter

Kal'Stang

Mr Person

A Little Bitter

shrubnose

Kal'Stang

shrubnose

Ikari

clownboy

clownboy

Kal'Stang

clownboy

Mr Person

A Little Bitter

Mr Person

A Little Bitter

nota bene

bicycleman

bicycleman

clownboy

bicycleman

SMTA

Tsuyo Ketsu no Anna

bicycleman

Mr Person

A Little Bitter

bicycleman

EdwinWillers

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