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Why is Toronto so less affordable than Dallas-Fort Worth?

Grand Mal said:
Real estate is a free market. Anything is worth exactly what you can get for it.
Hard as it may be to accept, living in Toronto or Vancouver is worth more than living in Texas.
That's not an opinion, it's the decision of the marketplace.
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well buying, because part of Carjosses complaint (repeated by Many Canadians and covered by Maclean's recently is that foreign investors are buying and leaving houses empty or using them sporadically. not nessecarily living there.
 
SDET said:
Pay rates are lower in Toronto than D/FW. Both metropolitan areas have a similar population. However a recent construction three bedroom, single family home costs about US$1700 per month to rent in D/FW. A similar home is about US$3000 per month in Toronto. Gasoline is US$1.78 per US gallon in D/FW. It's almost US$3 in Toronto. There's no state income tax in D/FW. Why is life in Toronto less prosperous than in Texas?
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As a country edges towards socialism it will often become more pleasant. That is, what happened in Russia Greece and Venezuela as well as in many other places. Later the costs overtake thelevel of sustainability and decline sets in. It depends on how much wealth the government can dispose of.
 
PeteEU said:
You did factor in healthcare costs right? Guessing you did not.
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Healthcare in the US requires strategy. My current role has a top-notch health plan. My previous was temp-to-hire. The temp agency had a health plan better than most permanent jobs and was one of the reasons I refused the conversion to permanent offer. A good health plan gives a competitive advantage to contract labor agencies. It's a shame that people need to accept socialism because they don't have the brains to manage their healthcare.
 
EMNofSeattle said:
That's not true, Chinese immigrate to Canada all the time, in many cases for work or education. and many chinese did buy in the 90s with the idea being to hold a spot to reside in , in the event they had to emigrate.

Maclean's did an investigation on this several months ago, and they mentioned amongst other things, that it is common for wealthy investors from out of country to purchase a property, send their children to Canada to study, and never themselves enter the country. some have bought property on the idea they can later qualify for the immigrant investor program, etc.

some do not move to Canada, some do. to claim there is zero net immigration from investors is false, and certainly the ease of which one can obtain residency, in addition to social benefits, low crime, etc. is a selling point for Canadian real estate over US.


if Chinese were buying Long Island at the rate they buy Toronto it would easily exceed 20 AVI. you're talking desirable dirt close to a major city and geographically constrained from new massive development.
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There is not zero net migration but there is definitely more of them buying property than there is immigration or them. The investor program is also going to be retired yet they still continue to buy property like it is goign out of style. We should be prioritizing middle-class Canadians over wealthy Chinese. I would tax them into oblivion.
 
EMNofSeattle said:
well buying, because part of Carjosses complaint (repeated by Many Canadians and covered by Maclean's recently is that foreign investors are buying and leaving houses empty or using them sporadically. not nessecarily living there.
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I'm not normally in favor of government interference, but what if city hall or the provincial government levied an unoccupied dwelling tax?
 
SDET said:
Healthcare in the US requires strategy. My current role has a top-notch health plan. My previous was temp-to-hire. The temp agency had a health plan better than most permanent jobs and was one of the reasons I refused the conversion to permanent offer. A good health plan give a competitive advantage to contract labor agencies. It's a shame that people need to accept socialism because they don't have the brains to manage their healthcare.
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I don't have to care where I work, I know I will have good healthcare coverage, I can even start my own business and not fear about loss of my health plan. That is true for everyone not just those in better jobs. It is not because we are stupid but because it makes more sense and overall is cheaper. We are not goign to turn this thread into a healthcare debate though.
 
SDET said:
I'm not normally in favor of government interference, but what if city hall or the provincial government levied an unoccupied dwelling tax?
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Vancouver recently got permission to but there is not much of a government push, at least in BC because all of the government officials have large real estate investments. It is also the people who already own homes that vote for them. Reducing prices really only benefits millennials so the government does not care.
 
Carjosse said:
There is not zero net migration but there is definitely more of them buying property than there is immigration or them. The investor program is also going to be retired yet they still continue to buy property like it is goign out of style. We should be prioritizing middle-class Canadians over wealthy Chinese. I would tax them into oblivion.
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There's no need to be punitive about it, just enough of a push to achieve the desired behavior: Putting the dwellings on the rental market with the intent of lowering rents in general.
 
SDET said:
There's no need to be punitive about it, just enough of a push to achieve the desired behavior: Putting the dwellings on the rental market with the intent of lowering rents in general.
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That is where I disagree I would rather the property be in the hands of Canadian citizens and residents than the Chinese.
 
Carjosse said:
I don't have to care where I work, I know I will have good healthcare coverage, I can even start my own business and not fear about loss of my health plan. That is true for everyone not just those in better jobs. It is not because we are stupid but because it makes more sense and overall is cheaper. We are not goign to turn this thread into a healthcare debate though.
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That's a good mindset. You can't eat healthcare; you can't drive healthcare. If you're on vacation, the last place you want to be is in a hospital, besides the morgue.
 
Carjosse said:
That is where I disagree I would rather the property be in the hands of Canadian citizens and residents than the Chinese.
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If the foreign investors want to supply your residents with cheap rentals, you should let them. Foreign investors got burned and burned bad in Florida, but the houses are still there as a supply contribution to the housing market.
 
SDET said:
I'm not normally in favor of government interference, but what if city hall or the provincial government levied an unoccupied dwelling tax?
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It would need to be a tax though that exceeds the increase in annual value..... the people buying have money, and can pay a tax. if you're holding on to a residence to flee if tanks roll in to Hong Kong you'll keep paying whatever it costs for the security bubble.

I'm not exactly sure what you would do, the only real solution I see is passing a concrete limit on foreign holdings.
 
Different cities, different regions, different countries :shrug: I feel like this is a failed comparison between a "liberal" area and a "conservative" area when no accurate comparison can be adequately made. Too many variables. Some are likely due to policy and taxation, but that's also something based on individual values to judge.

PeteEU said:
Because Texas is a dump? Why on earth would anyone want to live there? Toronto is one of the best places on the planet to raise a family.. where as Texas aint.
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Is Texas just a dump because it's an American red state? I have a family member who lives in Dallas and he loves it.
 
digsbe said:
Different cities, different regions, different countries :shrug: I feel like this is a failed comparison between a "liberal" area and a "conservative" area when no accurate comparison can be adequately made. Too many variables. Some are likely due to policy and taxation, but that's also something based on individual values to judge.



Is Texas just a dump because it's an American red state? I have a family member who lives in Dallas and he loves it.
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I would consider living in Austin, the cost of living would be much lower and my salary would be higher. But most of the US is much better aligned with salaries and cost of living whereas Canada has San Francisco cost of living but only with Southern US salaries in cities like Toronto.
 
EMNofSeattle said:
Never mind, you're right, I was thinking of Vancouvers massive foreign buy out in the 1990s that driven by HK and Maccau going to China....

Still the reason for Canada is I believe that Canada's immigration policies, especially towards property owners, are friendlier then the US. if they were looking at a purely financial perspective LA and Long Island NY are better financial investments then anywhere in Canada. So I don't think money is the primary driver.
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Yes, i believe Asians like Canada due to it's easier immigration policies firstmost, and the universal healthcare is just an additional kicker.

But there's often more work to be had in the States, and in the northern latitudes it's not unusual to see Asian immigrants settling and/or moving on both sides of the border, and going back & forth, having split families, etc.
 
longview said:
Wouldn't Calgary and Dallas be a better comparison? Alberta and Texas have very similar economies,
and within those states/provinces, Dallas and Calgary share much in common.
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And getting out of Texas, Chicago and Toronto are remarkably similar in many ways.
 
Chomsky said:
Yes, i believe Asians like Canada due to it's easier immigration policies firstmost, and the universal healthcare is just an additional kicker.

But there's often more work to be had in the States, and in the northern latitudes it's not unusual to see Asian immigrants settling and/or moving on both sides of the border, and going back & forth, having split families, etc.
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That is true, I used to work in Portland and my employer would put me in a hotel and there would be a shuttle to the job site from the hotel, the hotel shuttle driver was an older chinese man, tipping was customary and I had no US Cash, but lots of canadian cash from a recent trip to Vancouver, so before we get there I cautiously ask if he does business in Canada, well turns out half his family lives in Vancouver and he visits twice a month, so I tipped him some canadian bills and he was ok with that. just a personal anecdote.
 
EMNofSeattle said:
That is true, I used to work in Portland and my employer would put me in a hotel and there would be a shuttle to the job site from the hotel, the hotel shuttle driver was an older chinese man, tipping was customary and I had no US Cash, but lots of canadian cash from a recent trip to Vancouver, so before we get there I cautiously ask if he does business in Canada, well turns out half his family lives in Vancouver and he visits twice a month, so I tipped him some canadian bills and he was ok with that. just a personal anecdote.
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With today's exchange rate he would probably slap you in the face.
 
Chomsky said:
And getting out of Texas, Chicago and Toronto are remarkably similar in many ways.
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I actually think that is a really good comparison, except in crime. They both have similar industries, similar geographic location, ****ty rail based public transit, etc.
 
Carjosse said:
I think education would be a much better factor. It is substantially cheaper here as well higher quality from elementary school to university.
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I'll be the first to vouch for the quality in general of the Canadian k-12 public schools ... my (many) Canuck family members seem to have gotten a very good grammar & high school level education.
 
Chomsky said:
I'll be the first to vouch for the quality in general of the Canadian k-12 public schools ... my (many) Canuck family members seem to have gotten a very good grammar & high school level education.
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Well I went to one of the worst schools in the province, it is still much better than what I hear about the US.
 
Grand Mal said:
Real estate is a free market. Anything is worth exactly what you can get for it.
Hard as it may be to accept, living in Toronto or Vancouver is worth more than living in Texas.
That's not an opinion, it's the decision of the marketplace.
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This is it exactly! :thumbs:

With no disrespect to Texans, but Toronto is one of the most desirable cities to live in the world, and was recently voted among the very highest quality of life in the world by a major lifestyle org (though I forget which one).
 
SDET said:
Healthcare in the US requires strategy. My current role has a top-notch health plan. My previous was temp-to-hire. The temp agency had a health plan better than most permanent jobs and was one of the reasons I refused the conversion to permanent offer. A good health plan gives a competitive advantage to contract labor agencies. It's a shame that people need to accept socialism because they don't have the brains to manage their healthcare.
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Not all in America are in the position to avail themselves of quality healthcare strategies as this, like they have in Canada. You're attempting to expand a specific into a generality.
 
Chomsky said:
This is it exactly! :thumbs:

With no disrespect to Texans, but Toronto is one of the most desirable cities to live in the world, and was recently voted among the very highest quality of life in the world by a major lifestyle org (though I forget which one).
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Well Texas does have one city that usually ranks very high within the US, Austin.
 
EMNofSeattle said:
That is true, I used to work in Portland and my employer would put me in a hotel and there would be a shuttle to the job site from the hotel, the hotel shuttle driver was an older chinese man, tipping was customary and I had no US Cash, but lots of canadian cash from a recent trip to Vancouver, so before we get there I cautiously ask if he does business in Canada, well turns out half his family lives in Vancouver and he visits twice a month, so I tipped him some canadian bills and he was ok with that. just a personal anecdote.
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Now ask me how I know ... :mrgreen:
 
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