Lindsey Graham Accuses Holder of Making Bad History

The Prof · 11-18-09, 08:19 PM

1. That Graham, Grassley and Hatch would grill the AG over his seemingly off-cuff call to try KSM in criminal court in Manhattan is not that interesting.

2. The fact that the AG had to testify before Leahy's Judiciary Committee, in contrast, certifiably is.

3. Fascinating.

4. Holder/Obama are on the extreme wrong side of this issue politically.

5. Polls show overwhelming disapproval of this crass decision to politicize KSM via so high profile a proceeding.

6. CNN says 64% oppose prosecuting KSM in the Big Apple.

CNN Political Ticker: All politics, all the time Blog Archive - CNN Poll: Americans want KSM tried in military court - Blogs from CNN.com

7. Rasmussen, the most accurate sampler in the nation in 04, 06 and 08, has 51% against Holder's holding, with only 29% in support.

51% Oppose Decision To Try Terrorists in New York City - Rasmussen Reports

8. Reasons to question the AG are legion, including the zoo-like atmosphere so often occasioned in our courts.

9. Or don't you remember Simpson, Michael, Manson, Moussaoui...

10. This circus could go on for years.

11. Grassley, for example, was for more interesting when he pointed out to Holder that many Americans at one time were quite confident OJ would be convicted.

12. Graham raised an unanswerable objection---were Osama Bin Laden captured today, asked the contrarian Carolinian, would he require mirandizing?

13. The platform provided for KSM and his cohorts to propagandize is indisputable.

14. Propaganda is a major theater of this war.

15. Recruitments to Al Qaeda must accrue through all the publicity.

16. Afghanistan becomes only that much grainier.

17. KSM, for example, SEEKS martyrdom.

18. The "classified" intel made available to their side through discovery and other means can potentially be broadcast to the world.

19. The disparagement of Dick Cheney and his sentries in the CIA seems the central goal of this strange strategem.

20. Cheney, though, fights back.

21. And he is LOADED with ammo---the flipping of KSM who provided intel leading to several important arrests, the disruption of plots, the keeping of America safe...

22. Very divisive the going over of all these revelations proves to be, here and around the world.

23. The security risks to Manhattan are certainly increased.

24. Schumer demands $75 mil to cover the costs.

25. This apparently arbitrary decision why some are to be tried in civilian court and some before military tribunals has yet to be elucidated.

26. Obama and Holder have already pre-convicted the accused, rather defeating the purpose.

Obama on terror trials: KSM will die - Josh Gerstein - POLITICO.com

President Obama, AG Holder: Khalid Mohammed guilty verdict will vindicate move to try case in NYC

27. Furthermore, the president's claim that this crazy call was made comprehensively by Holder is less credulous even than Arizona86 coming in with 30 jobs "created or saved."

28. The attack on the WTC and the Pentagon on 9-11 was an act of war, not a violation of US or NY state criminal code.

29. Truman never even considered trying Goering in the circuit.

30. By this dizzy determination to avail to KSM the same rights as those enjoyed by US citizens the president paints himself as an extremist.

31. The play is a sop to progressives, so disappointed by ideological concessions forced in fields as far apart as the public option, the closure of Gitmo, the revving up in Afghanistan.

32. This will never happen, there will never be a criminal trial of KSM and his merry men in Manhattan.

Quote:

A top Senate Republican on Wednesday accused Attorney General Eric Holder of "making bad history" in his decision to send professed Sept. 11 mastermind Khalid Sheikh Mohammed and his co-conspirators to New York for trial in civilian court.

Speaking at a Senate Judiciary Committee hearing in which Holder testified, Sen. Lindsey Graham, R-S.C., raised concerns that the attorney general was imperiling national security by determining that war-time combatants, potentially even Usama bin Laden, might be sent into the criminal system.

"We're making bad history here," Graham said. "The big problem I have is that you're criminalizing the war. ... I think you've made a fundamental mistake here."

Testifying for the first time on the decision, Holder delivered a point-by-point rebuttal to his critics who say he's treating the suspects with a "pre-9/11 mentality."

"I know that we are at war," Holder declared.

The attorney general said he knew his decision would be controversial and considered it a "tough call." He said the defendants could have been tried in either military or civilian court, since, "The 9/11 attacks were both an act of war and a violation of our federal criminal law."

But he stood by his call to bring the five defendants into federal court, saying he considered "every alternative" and determined that New York is the venue "most likely to obtain justice for the American people."

"We need not cower in the face of this enemy. Our institutions are strong ... and our people are ready," Holder said. Asked what might happen if the suspects are acquitted, Holder replied: "Failure is not an option. These are cases that have to be won. I don't expect that we will have a contrary result."

Holder's testimony comes after days of criticism from Republicans and Democrats who warned that New York civilian court is not the appropriate venue and could pose several problems for the prosecution.

Critics say the venue could make it difficult to use evidence obtained without a warrant, create problems over classified information and give Mohammed the platform he wants.

But Holder defended the record of the civilian courts in handling international and domestic terrorists, and said Mohammed would have no more of a platform to "spew his hateful ideology" in New York than in a military commission.

"I'm not scared of what Khalid Sheikh Mohammed has to say at trial and no one else needs to be afraid either," Holder said, adding that the judge in the case will ensure "appropriate decorum."

Sen. Charles Schumer, D-N.Y., also called on Holder to ensure that New York City is reimbursed for all security expenses connected with the trial -- he pegged estimates at a minimum of $75 million a year.

"These trials will place a significant burden on the NYPD and the city to keep lower Manhattan safe and secure. This is a federal case in federal court and it is only fair that the federal government pay for the massive security mobilization that will be required," Schumer said in a statement.

Meanwhile, President Obama said in one of a series of TV interviews during his trip to Asia that those offended by the legal privileges given to Mohammed by virtue of getting a civilian trial rather than a military tribunal won't find it "offensive at all when he's convicted and when the death penalty is applied to him."

Obama quickly added that he did not mean to suggest he was prejudging the outcome of Mohammed's trial. "I'm not going to be in that courtroom," he said. "That's the job of the prosecutors, the judge and the jury."

Graham Accuses Holder of 'Making Bad History' With Sept. 11 Trial Decision - FOXNews.com

The Prof

Telecaster · 11-18-09, 09:30 PM

Well Prof, I hope you're right that this thing will never happen. It really shows the ameturishness of these Progressives. Holder was simply spanked today because they have nothing to stand on other than their constant criticism of the Bush administration. Their target is not the good of the nation. It is the good of their ideology. And their ideals do not serve liberty.

Ethereal · 11-18-09, 09:35 PM

Trying KSM in the criminal justice system is our only option. If we put him before a military tribunal some people in Europe might get upset; we must avoid this at all costs.

azura28 · 11-19-09, 01:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Telecaster

Well Prof, I hope you're right that this thing will never happen. It really shows the ameturishness of these Progressives. Holder was simply spanked today because they have nothing to stand on other than their constant criticism of the Bush administration. Their target is not the good of the nation. It is the good of their ideology. And their ideals do not serve liberty.

Very well said, and he was more than spanked - he looked like a bumbling idiot. Wow. As bad as Republican attorney generals were, with the Democrats we have this idiot. How can you not know the answer to these questions? Is it stupidity, arrogance, what?

More Sarah Palin jokes?

The video shows Holder is so well equippped.

YouTube- Lindsey Graham Destroys Eric Holder

Strucky · 11-19-09, 03:20 PM

Ouch,Holder got owned.

RightinNYC · 11-19-09, 03:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by azura28

[/B]

Very well said, and he was more than spanked - he looked like a bumbling idiot. Wow. As bad as Republican attorney generals were, with the Democrats we have this idiot. How can you not know the answer to these questions? Is it stupidity, arrogance, what?

More Sarah Palin jokes?

The video shows Holder is so well equippped.

YouTube- Lindsey Graham Destroys Eric Holder

Wow.

That was pretty painful to sit through. Ech.

Also, as an aside - how did Holder not know that he would be asked those exact questions? Why didn't he have some response prepared?

Strucky · 11-19-09, 03:54 PM

You know,we on the right tend to give Graham alot of grief for some of his positions....But I have to give him his dues here,he was spot on and relentless in his questioning.

Jackboot · 11-19-09, 03:56 PM

I have to admit I was uncomfortable for the man, it seemed like one bad answer after another, he was not prepared at all.

lizzie · 11-19-09, 04:07 PM

Graham is trying to secure his re-election. Not that I like what's going on with Holder- in fact it's a huge mistake imo, but politicians who start feigning outrage are trying to hold their power.

Telecaster · 11-19-09, 06:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lizzie

Graham is trying to secure his re-election. Not that I like what's going on with Holder- in fact it's a huge mistake imo, but politicians who start feigning outrage are trying to hold their power.

Sure. But at the same time we can't assume all of our elected officials have no decency whatsoever. At times an issue comes along that demands a strong stand with worthy intentions. As for this particular effort, it appears the administration is less interested in KSM than they are with the Bush admin. They are more interested in uprooting our traditional systems and protocol. Someone needs to appose them. It may as well be Graham.

11-18-09, 09:30 PM	#2
Telecaster Advisor Join Date: Sep 2009 Last Seen: 03-12-10 05:17 PM Location: SoCal Posts: 340 Thanks: 8 Thanked 49 Times in 41 Posts Lean: Conservative Gender:	Re: Lindsey Graham Accuses Holder of Making Bad History Well Prof, I hope you're right that this thing will never happen. It really shows the ameturishness of these Progressives. Holder was simply spanked today because they have nothing to stand on other than their constant criticism of the Bush administration. Their target is not the good of the nation. It is the good of their ideology. And their ideals do not serve liberty.

11-18-09, 09:35 PM	#3
Ethereal Capitalist Fat-Cat Join Date: Sep 2005 Last Seen: Today 04:12 PM Location: Chicago Posts: 8,098 Thanks: 7,683 Thanked 4,106 Times in 2,315 Posts Lean: Libertarian Gender: Total Awards: 1	Re: Lindsey Graham Accuses Holder of Making Bad History Trying KSM in the criminal justice system is our only option. If we put him before a military tribunal some people in Europe might get upset; we must avoid this at all costs.

11-19-09, 03:20 PM	#5
Strucky Professor Join Date: Aug 2009 Last Seen: 03-12-10 05:43 PM Location: Minnesota Posts: 1,557 Thanks: 600 Thanked 327 Times in 221 Posts Lean: Very Conservative Gender: Total Awards: 1	Re: Lindsey Graham Accuses Holder of Making Bad History Ouch,Holder got owned.
	__________________ "They say they are not going to take any water out of your side of the bucket, just the "other" side of the bucket! That's their idea of tax reform." -Fred Thompson-

11-19-09, 03:54 PM	#7
Strucky Professor Join Date: Aug 2009 Last Seen: 03-12-10 05:43 PM Location: Minnesota Posts: 1,557 Thanks: 600 Thanked 327 Times in 221 Posts Lean: Very Conservative Gender: Total Awards: 1	Re: Lindsey Graham Accuses Holder of Making Bad History You know,we on the right tend to give Graham alot of grief for some of his positions....But I have to give him his dues here,he was spot on and relentless in his questioning.
	__________________ "They say they are not going to take any water out of your side of the bucket, just the "other" side of the bucket! That's their idea of tax reform." -Fred Thompson-

11-19-09, 03:56 PM	#8
Jackboot Banned Join Date: Sep 2009 Last Seen: 01-21-10 12:59 PM Posts: 744 Thanks: 57 Thanked 143 Times in 100 Posts	Re: Lindsey Graham Accuses Holder of Making Bad History I have to admit I was uncomfortable for the man, it seemed like one bad answer after another, he was not prepared at all.

The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to The Prof For This Useful Post:
Ethereal, Gill, Strucky

The Following User Says Thank You to Ethereal For This Useful Post:
Telecaster

The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to azura28 For This Useful Post:
Gill, Ockham, RightinNYC, Strucky

11-19-09, 04:07 PM	#9
lizzie Professor Join Date: Oct 2009 Last Seen: Today 07:04 PM Location: In an alternate dimension Posts: 1,401 Thanks: 609 Thanked 469 Times in 343 Posts Lean: Private Gender:	Re: Lindsey Graham Accuses Holder of Making Bad History Graham is trying to secure his re-election. Not that I like what's going on with Holder- in fact it's a huge mistake imo, but politicians who start feigning outrage are trying to hold their power.

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