Women's rights groups endorse Obama - Page 11

Panther · 09-18-08, 05:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arcana XV

An embryo is not a baby.

Obama was for killing babies as well if they were born and the mother still didn't want it. Or are you suggesting that it isn't a baby until it is born and there is a parent available that wants it?

Arcana XV · 09-18-08, 05:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jerry

Obama supports killing "persons", though, so how could a woman's rights group support someone who would take away all of their rights?

That depends on what they consider a person. I think a viable born alive fetus is a person. But that's my opinion, not everyone shares it.

Arcana XV · 09-18-08, 05:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Panther

Obama was for killing babies as well if they were born and the mother still didn't want it. Or are you suggesting that it isn't a baby until it is born and there is a parent available that wants it?

See my response to Jerry above.

Panther · 09-18-08, 05:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arcana XV

That depends on what they consider a person. I think a viable born alive fetus is a person. But that's my opinion, not everyone shares it.

So you would rather support someone who believes in killing what you consider to be a viable human baby, than someone who is anti-abortion? Granted you disagree with both positions, but how do you reconcile favoring the former?

Arcana XV · 09-18-08, 05:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Panther

So you would rather support someone who believes in killing what you consider to be a viable human baby, than someone who is anti-abortion? Granted you disagree with both positions, but how do you reconcile favoring the former?

Well, I'm very unlikely to have to face this kind of choice where I live given that abortion is illegal after the 12th week. But, honestly, if I were to have to make the choice between someone who would illegalize all abortions and someone who doesn't share my view that a viable born alive fetus is a person, I would vote for the pro-choice candidate and would actively get involved in making sure that no law is ever passed in my country that would allow the killing of a born alive fetus.

Jerry · 09-18-08, 06:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arcana XV

That depends on what they consider a person. It depends on what, objectively, a person is. Their personal opinions are irrelevant and their personal philosophical beliefs should not be allowed to become law.

It depends on what, objectively, a person is. Their personal opinions are irrelevant and their personal philosophical beliefs should not be allowed to become law.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arcana XV

I think a viable born alive fetus is a person. But that's my opinion, not everyone shares it.

Everyone's personal belief on rather a ZEF is a “person” or not is completely irrelevant.

Only objective, verifiable truth, proven through science, should be reflected in law.

Arcana XV · 09-18-08, 06:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jerry

It depends on what, objectively, a person is. Their personal opinions are irrelevant and their personal philosophical beliefs should not be allowed to become law.

Neither should the personal philosophical or religious beliefs of the "pro-life with no exceptions" side.

Quote:

Everyone's personal belief on rather a ZEF is a “person” or not is completely irrelevant.

Only objective, verifiable truth, proven through science, should be reflected in law.

I'm cool with that. But I think you're confusing intra-utero life with personhood. Just as soon as scientists can figure out when intra-utero personhood starts, I'll be right there with them. I already know when life begins and it doesn't change my pro-choice stance. It's the personhood enigma that keeps nagging at me. If they can show me without a shadow of a doubt that a day old embryo is a person, I just might change my mind on abortion altogether.