Premature Birth Linked to Some Unexpected Later Problems - Page 3

1069 · 07-18-08, 06:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WI Crippler

Its not the propensity for actual disability that is offensive, that makes sense. Its the idea that ones that don't develop a physical disability are more likely to be less educated and other nonsense that has nothing to do with premature birth. Its an excuse used for failure, and people are willing to buy into it. What if I said, people that are born black are more likely to commit crime? I could find statistics to back that up I am sure. But is it because they have some genetic predisposition towards crime, or is it a social issue that has to do with the cultural influences? I would say that out of these 10-20% of premies that do not achieve and end up on early social security, that cultural factors involving their parents may have an influence on that. I mean out of all the premies born, what percentage of them are born to people that aren't well off, or that are drug users/smokers? I would guess that it could be 10%. Sure premies are born to healthy families to, but lets not assume that just because somebody is born a premie, that they are more predestined for failure than others, so long as they developed no physical disability. To believe that is a disservice to them, just as it would be a disservice to assume black children are pre destined for crime because of the skin color they were born with. That is whats offensive.

Or conversely, perhaps what's offensive is your propensity for blaming the parents for what's wrong with the grown child in his adult life.
As the Jackson Five so succinctly puts it: "Don't blame it on the sunshine/Don't blame it on the moonlight/Don't blame it on good times/Ain't nobody's fault/But yours and that boogie."

This issue is finally getting the recognition it deserves, i suspect, because the affluent, the influential, are observing these problems in their premature children.
As long as "preemies" were mostly the problem of underprivileged women who lacked adequate prenatal care, it was easy for society to write the problem off: of course the children are screwed up, their mothers were probably drug-addled dimwits, just look how brown their skin is.

More and more, however, *preemies* are becoming the problem of the upper class, the ones who wait until age forty to have children, and then discover themselves unable to do so without the aid of fertility treatments.

What's relevant about this study is that the medical community is becoming aware that there is a problem, that many people born prematurely- while they might be quite the geniuses and physically burly and what have you- nevertheless fail to amount to much in life.
Some medical personnel are already aware of this. When my son was in neonatal icu, a nurse even tried to broach the subject with me; she said that preemies often, even after they overcome their physical problems and catch up developmentally, exhibit a vague plethora of social and psychological problems, sensory integration disorders, attention deficit disorders, blah blah blah. I didn't really assimilate any of it. I didn't care. I was more concerned about the immediate problems of clearing up his wet lung, getting his bilirubin levels down. He had genetic birth defects to his internal organs that we didn't know about then; we didn't know until the week after we finally brought him home, when he had to be rushed back for emergency surgery.
I was not concerned about some hypothetical distant day when my physically healthy and brilliant grown son might nevertheless be categorically incapable of finding a moment's peace or contentment in life, because he is fundamentally uneasy inside his own body.
He'll survive. i'm not saying he won't.
And it's probably too late for anything to change, in his situation.

But if doctors could understand what it is that causes these problems in premature people, then they could begin to look for ways to mitigate them, through early intervention.
Until they identify the cluster of symptoms, they won't begin to look for solutions to the problem, because they won't acknowledge that there is one.

Blaming the parents is stupid, and distracts researchers from isolating and pinpointing the real problem, so they can figure out how to treat it; objectively speaking, my older son had a much crappier upbringing than my younger, yet he's got no such problems.
This is typical. I've spoken to other parents whose premature children exhibit a vague, indeterminate "not-rightness" as they move toward adulthood. Parents who recognize this are nearly always parents who have other, full-term children, and thus are perhaps quicker to realize that something is different about their premature child; that there's a problem, even when doctors aren't able to identify one.

I'm just hopeful that the medical community will now take an interest in this, and I'll be watching avidly for any new breakthrough.

WI Crippler · 07-18-08, 10:19 PM

Parent's play a significant role in raising a child and the development of a childs pshychology and abilities. Parents who fail in this regard will often look for excuses. After all it cannot possibly be their fault that their kid is messed up. So when a parent fails their child, and they look for excuses rather than owning their failure, they begin a pattern that repeats itself within the child. It is this denial of failure by parents, and the resultant acceptance of failure in their children that is eroding our society. When we accept that failure is ok in others, we invariably find excuses for them. If we do not accept failure as being ok, then we challenge them to grow and achieve. Failure happens, that cannot be denied. We all fail at something, somewhere. Its how we deal with failure that sets the bar for our future. If we accept it, and find a way to excuse it, we lower the bar. If we take our failures as a challenge and don't accept excuses for them, we raise the bar. And this applies across the board. It has nothing to do with what class you are. The rich and prosperous fail all the time, but still seek to achieve. That is what we should celebrate, and talk about in our society, rather than focusing on excuses for failure.

What does this picture have to do with this discussion?

Its a picture of Tiger Woods, at the US Open. He eventually won the US Open, but this shot wasn't even the winning shot or last hole. Why such emotion? 1 month before the US Open, Tiger Woods tore his ACL. Against his doctors advice, he said he would play anyway. Tiger has all the money he could want. He's got plenty of championships, and his place in golfing history is secure even if he never plays another hole for the rest of his life. He had an excuse, backed by strong medical evidence, to not play. He played anyway, and during the course of playing he developed 2 stress fractures in his left leg. He could have quit, and nobody would have blamed him. He continued to play on, in tremendous pain. And on the last hole of regulation, he needed to make a 12 foot long putt just to tie and force a playoff. This is his reaction when he made that putt. It is the picture of a man overcoming and achieving, in the face of very tough odds. It is why he is the best, because he has a drive instilled into him to achieve, if only for the sake of achievement. And this was drilled into him by his father time and time again growing up. His father gave his son the tools to overcome and achieve. Tiger was not born with this. He was taught it. He did not accept the failure of his left leg as an excuse to withdraw. This is what we need to teach our children. Not golf per sey, but the idea that they do not accept failure as an excuse to quit. Any parent who tells their children its not their fault when they fail, ultimatley fail their children.

1069 · 07-18-08, 10:36 PM

Lovely, childrearing advice from the guy with the knee-high rugrat. Charmed, I'm sure.

I'm sure that before my lil angels were old enough to sit up without being strapped into a chair, or eat anything that didn't have to be sucked, or crap anywhere except all over themselves, I was full of smug and self-righteous advice for older parents with grown children, too. After all, wasn't I a successful little parent, changing those messy diapers and shoving bottles and boobs into kids' mouths every time they cried? Giving baths and singing songs, patting them to sleep so patiently. What was so hard about that? A monkey could do it. How did all these older and more experienced people manage to screw it up so badly?
And I'm sure I sounded equally as pompous and ludicrous as you do at this moment.

You have no idea what's in store, and I don't envy you.

CaptainCourtesy · 07-19-08, 02:34 AM

To some extent, this is an extension of the old nurture vs. nature argument. Some combination of the two is, usually, the answer to this question.

roguenuke · 07-19-08, 06:31 AM

It may be a concern but the OP definitely makes it sound like preemies are somehow inferior to those people born at proper gestation and shouldn't have been allowed to be born if the mother had known that she would have a preemie.

I would like to see the financial situations and lifestyles of all those families that were studied. My guess would be that these things have more of an effect on the child's future health and wealth than the fact that they were preemies. Most children born premature are born that way because of a mother's health issues, which could carry over to the child, environmental factors, which could remain during the child's rearing, or improper/no prenatal care, which is usually due to low finances of mother/parents.

Even if all the other things were taken into account, I still see no reason to treat the child born prematurely any different than you would a child born after 37 weeks gestation. Parents should strive to do the best they can for their children anyway. Otherwise a person should consider precautions to avoid pregnancy until they're ready to be a parent if that day ever comes.

Marilyn Monroe · 07-19-08, 08:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1069

Premature Birth Linked to Some Unexpected Later Problems

By Serena Gordon
HealthDay Reporter
Wednesday, July 16, 2008

WEDNESDAY, July 16 (HealthDay News) -- Being born prematurely can lead to a host of long-lasting medical complications and may also affect other areas of life, such as education and income, even when no disability is apparent, a new study suggests.

In the July 17 issue of theNew England Journal of Medicine, Norwegian researchers report that babies born prematurely are more likely to have cerebral palsy, mental retardation and to need to receive disability payments.

More surprisingly, the researchers also found that when premature babies grew up, even if they had no identifiable disability, the youngest preemies were less likely to have a high income, more likely to be unemployed, more likely to receive Social Security benefits and less likely to become parents.

"The pessimistic view [of our study] is that we have demonstrated an increased risk for a broad spectrum of medical disabilities due to decreased gestational age, and for those without medical disabilities, a lesser but significant risk for a broad spectrum of social outcomes," said the study's lead author, Dr. Dag Moster, a neonatologist at the Haukeland University Hospital.

>snip<

The smallest babies -- those born between 23 and 27 weeks -- who survived with no apparent medical disabilities were also 10 percent less likely to finish high school, 20 percent less likely to have completed college, 20 percent less likely to have a high income, 20 percent more likely to receive Social Security benefits and 20 percent less likely to have become parents than babies born full-term.

>snip<

link

This is not news to me. I've been knowing this.
But in this case, there is no satisfaction in being right; in having my long-held understanding validated by the medical community.
Some children aren't meant for this world; when we defy nature and force them to stay, there are consequences. Mere survival must be viewed as triumph; our expectations must be adjusted accordingly.
In my family, premature birth is common, and we have a word to describe our premature loved ones: "half-baked".
As in, "What can you expect? He's only half-baked."
This is as good a term as any to describe what's wrong with people who were born too soon, even when nothing is diagnosably medically wrong.
They weren't meant to be. That's what's wrong with them. That they exist among us when they weren't supposed to is a joy and a triumph, a cause for celebration.
But don't expect much more from them than that.

I don't agree. We now have the ability to keep them alive, some would live anyway. Sounds superstitious to say they weren't meant to be.

I have a friend that was so small they put her in a shoe box when she was born. No artificial means were used. She's doesn't have a lot of common sense, but that's hereditary. Some of these premies would have been this way even if they went full term. Might try looking at the parents.

WI Crippler · 07-19-08, 11:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1069

Lovely, childrearing advice from the guy with the knee-high rugrat. Charmed, I'm sure.

I'm sure that before my lil angels were old enough to sit up without being strapped into a chair, or eat anything that didn't have to be sucked, or crap anywhere except all over themselves, I was full of smug and self-righteous advice for older parents with grown children, too. After all, wasn't I a successful little parent, changing those messy diapers and shoving bottles and boobs into kids' mouths every time they cried? Giving baths and singing songs, patting them to sleep so patiently. What was so hard about that? A monkey could do it. How did all these older and more experienced people manage to screw it up so badly?
And I'm sure I sounded equally as pompous and ludicrous as you do at this moment.

You have no idea what's in store, and I don't envy you.

Of course I don't. But I am not resting on my laurels. My job and role as a parent will never be done, until I die. It will change, but it will never be finished. As good as my son is now, I know that he will never be perfect. But I won't make excuses for him when he fails. And I won't(don't) make excuses for myself, whenever I fail him. I know the effect that has on other kids. I do not live in a shell. I have relatives who lead and live unhealthy lifestyles, always making an excuse for why their child doesn't behave or function normally with other children. Their solution, rather than looking at their inability as parents and fixing those problems, is to search out a doctor to medicate their child so that their kid isn't a problem for them anymore. And the drugs never cure anything. They merely treat the symptoms, and thus the child is doomed for a life of dependency because they will never be able to function, because the easy way out was taken by their parents all those years ago. Rather than actually try to fix a problem, they just didn't want to deal with it.

Summerwind · 07-19-08, 11:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WI Crippler

Of course I don't. But I am not resting on my laurels. My job and role as a parent will never be done, until I die. It will change, but it will never be finished. As good as my son is now, I know that he will never be perfect. But I won't make excuses for him when he fails. And I won't(don't) make excuses for myself, whenever I fail him. I know the effect that has on other kids. I do not live in a shell. I have relatives who lead and live unhealthy lifestyles, always making an excuse for why their child doesn't behave or function normally with other children. Their solution, rather than looking at their inability as parents and fixing those problems, is to search out a doctor to medicate their child so that their kid isn't a problem for them anymore. And the drugs never cure anything. They merely treat the symptoms, and thus the child is doomed for a life of dependency because they will never be able to function, because the easy way out was taken by their parents all those years ago. Rather than actually try to fix a problem, they just didn't want to deal with it.

I agree entirely. I have what is now considered ADHD, and my son also has it. I was never taught to out-think and out-perform my issues by my parents. Fortunately, I taught myself, so that by the time my son was born and showed similar issues, I was able to get him to see and embrace the concept of recognizing and then out-thinking and then correcting his adverse behavior without meds. It wasn't easy, it meant a few fights, it meant a certain level of zero tolerance; but always we ended with discussions that reviewed his "disorder" highlighting both the frustrations AND the perks that would allow him to overcome those frustrations. So far so good. He is nearly 20, holds a job now for over a year, has a gal for over a year, treats his friends and family with relative patience even though internally his dialogue is much less forgiving, and so on.

Kids that are med'd seem to never be taught much, so if they ever remove their meds, they will still be clueless as to how to re-think their situations in such a way as to not over-react to them, ultimately they will have to be re-med'd to succeed. But, hey, the pharmas are profiting nicely, that's all that really matters, right?

WI Crippler · 07-19-08, 11:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Summerwind

Kids that are med'd seem to never be taught much, so if they ever remove their meds, they will still be clueless as to how to re-think their situations in such a way as to not over-react to them, ultimately they will have to be re-med'd to succeed. But, hey, the pharmas are profiting nicely, that's all that really matters, right?

This is one of my biggest beefs with the medical community. Not that pharmas make profit, but that they do so by not fixing whats wrong. Would I pay a car mechanic to fix something on my car, but I have to take it back to him each day to fix it again? Hell no. I would take it to somebody who is going to fix the problem. Unfortunantley, nobody seems to be curing anything. Not just US firms. Even in countries with socialized healthcare or medicine, cures aren't forth coming. You just get to live with your disease.

Summerwind · 07-19-08, 11:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WI Crippler

This is one of my biggest beefs with the medical community. Not that pharmas make profit, but that they do so by not fixing whats wrong. Would I pay a car mechanic to fix something on my car, but I have to take it back to him each day to fix it again? Hell no. I would take it to somebody who is going to fix the problem. Unfortunantley, nobody seems to be curing anything. Not just US firms. Even in countries with socialized healthcare or medicine, cures aren't forth coming. You just get to live with your disease.

I have read a few posts/articles that certain cures are intentionally being withheld because their is not enough profit in curing diseases for either the pharmas or the doctors; but "chronic" conditions are a guaranteed long-term income source. No, I can't prove it, nor did any of the articles/posts, but it sure seems to be evident to anyone looking, huh?