| *Breaking News* Bush claims privilege to withhold CIA leak records; Originally Posted by Binary_Digit
Bush claims privilege to withhold CIA leak records - Yahoo! News
Granted, it would be ridiculous for ... |
07-21-08, 02:09 PM
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Current Mood: | Re: Bush claims privilege to withhold CIA leak records Quote:
Originally Posted by Binary_Digit Bush claims privilege to withhold CIA leak records - Yahoo! News
Granted, it would be ridiculous for the President to have to explain every minor detail of his actions throughout his Presidency. But when a law has been broken, it wreaks of guilt for the President to claim executive privilege in order to avoid cooperating with the investigation.
And for those who believe Richard Armitage was the only leaker, and thus the investigation is a farce, don't forget that Robert Novak cited " two senior administration officials" as his sources. Armitage was one, so who was the other? Obviously Bush doesn't want you to know...
Somebody else besides Armitage leaked classified information to the press. A law may have been broken, which put peoples' lives at risk, and the President is obstructing the investigation to find out if and who. I think it's time for George W. Bush to be held in contempt of Congress. | What a complete pile of Liberal bile. Keywords for a Liberal media who continues to distort the facts: " related to the administration's leak of CIA operative Valerie Plame's identity in 2003."
Henry Waxman is one of the single BIGGEST Democrat whack jobs in congress and has done nothing but waste taxpayer money with his many useless witch hunts.
What makes such idiotic and fantastical stories so absurd is that the taxpayers of this country have already thrown away $40 million in a several year investigation where the special prosecutor found NOTHING to suggest that any laws were broken and obtained ONE indictment against Libby for lying under oath about not remembering where he heard the leak in a case where the SOURCE of the PRESUMED “leak” had been known all along.
This case is irrelevant, Waxman is irrelevant and the entire Democrat party is irrelevant; Bush and Cheney did not INVENT executive privilege and the notion that Waxman will find anything remotely close to a credible case to prosecute illustrates that Democrats continue to play divisive partisan politics with the taxpayer money for purely political purposes and partisan grandstanding.
If one wonders why Congress approval ratings have achieved and all-time low of 14%, all one need do is look at congress failure to work on any meaningful Bi-Partisan legislation, pass a balanced budget and continue to waste the taxpayers money on witch hunts with no other goal than to grab headlines from a liberal media that is losing more and more of their subscribers pushing them closer to bankruptcy because the American public is finding it harder to take anything they write serious any more.
Here's a BET for you: The courts will continue to find on behalf of this Administration that the President and his advisors have a right to keep their communications private; that no laws were broken and that Henry Waxman and the current "leadership" (oxymoron) in the House and Senate are nothing but a bunch of retarded loons who couldn't lead their way out of a wet paper sack.
What a joke. Yet here you go again with the same tired Liberal divisive political tactics.
__________________ Nothing can frighten a Socialist more than the TRUTH; and nothing can frighten Obama more than REALITY |
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07-21-08, 02:09 PM
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#72 (permalink)
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Lean: Liberal Gender:  | Re: Bush claims privilege to withhold CIA leak records Quote:
Originally Posted by section eight Ya but he didn't know of her covert status so he didn't commit a crime either. | Armitage did not know? I don't buy that for a minute. |
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07-21-08, 02:15 PM
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Current Mood: | Re: Bush claims privilege to withhold CIA leak records Quote:
Originally Posted by Orius I find it ironic that a past President was impeeched for an interoffice affair, while this one has done more than enough to warrant his own trial. Obstruction of justice, to name one. | What is ironic is your continual lack of facts to support your wild eyed assertions.
Clinton was caught LYING under oath about having SEX with an INTERN in the White House. That is an impeachable offense. He was also DISBARRED for the same offense.
What is fascinating is that Liberals, who attempt to argue they are more credible and interested in transparent honest Government, continue to defend such offensively poor behavior which exhibited Clinton’s profound lack of good judgment in their weak efforts to suggest that anyone has proved ANY wrong doing in this administration?
Again for all you Liberals who prefer to wallow in denial; saying it is so is not considered solid evidence of wrong doing. You still have to have FACTS; unfortunately, an entire political party in this country is attempting to lower the bar for decency and credibility for many future politicians including themselves with such empty, offensive, absurd and false political rhetoric. |
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07-21-08, 02:15 PM
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| Re: Bush claims privilege to withhold CIA leak records Quote:
Originally Posted by cascadian McCarthy is also a conservative columnist. He does not cite precedent, so its nothing more than an opinion. As I keep saying, this needs to be argued in front of a judge to see its merits. | As per the McCarthy article this point was raised by the press in court, but he doesn't mention the name of the case and the link to brief is broken so I don't know what the courts ruling was but here's that part of his article anyways: Quote:
THE MEDIA GOES TO COURT ... AND SINGS A DIFFERENT TUNE
Just four months ago, 36 news organizations confederated to file a friend-of-the-court brief in the U.S. Court of Appeals in Washington. At the time, Bush-bashing was (no doubt reluctantly) confined to an unusual backseat. The press had no choice — it was time to close ranks around two of its own, namely, the Times's Judith Miller and Time's Matthew Cooper, who were threatened with jail for defying grand jury subpoenas from the special prosecutor.
The media's brief, fairly short and extremely illuminating, is available here. The Times, which is currently spearheading the campaign against Rove and the Bush administration, encouraged its submission. It was joined by a "who's who" of the current Plame stokers, including ABC, NBC, CBS, CNN, AP, Newsweek, Reuters America, the Washington Post, the Tribune Company (which publishes the Los Angeles Times and the Baltimore Sun, among other papers), and the White House Correspondents (the organization which represents the White House press corps in its dealings with the executive branch).
The thrust of the brief was that reporters should not be held in contempt or forced to reveal their sources in the Plame investigation. Why? Because, the media organizations confidently asserted, no crime had been committed. Now, that is stunning enough given the baleful shroud the press has consciously cast over this story. Even more remarkable, though, were the key details these self-styled guardians of the public's right to know stressed as being of the utmost importance for the court to grasp — details those same guardians have assiduously suppressed from the coverage actually presented to the public.
Though you would not know it from watching the news, you learn from reading the news agencies' brief that the 1982 law prohibiting disclosure of undercover agents' identities explicitly sets forth a complete defense to this crime. It is contained in Section 422 (of Title 50, U.S. Code), and it provides that an accused leaker is in the clear if, sometime before the leak, "the United States ha[s] publicly acknowledged or revealed" the covert agent's "intelligence relationship to the United States[.]"
As it happens, the media organizations informed the court that long before the Novak revelation (which, as noted above, did not disclose Plame's classified relationship with the CIA), Plame's cover was blown not once but twice. The media based this contention on reporting by the indefatigable Bill Gertz — an old-school, "let's find out what really happened" kind of journalist. Gertz's relevant article, published a year ago in the Washington Times, can be found here. Andrew C. McCarthy on Valerie Plame on National Review Online | |
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07-21-08, 02:22 PM
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#75 (permalink)
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| Re: Bush claims privilege to withhold CIA leak records Quote:
Originally Posted by aps Armitage did not know? I don't buy that for a minute. | Well according to the news coverage he assumed she was not covert, he was not intentionally outing a CIA agent and as per Section 421 of U.S. Code Title 50 intent is key: Quote:
Section 421. Protection of identities of certain United States undercover intelligence officers, agents, informants, and sources
(a) Disclosure of information by persons having or having had
access to classified information that identifies covert agent
Whoever, having or having had authorized access to classified
information that identifies a covert agent, intentionally discloses
any information identifying such covert agent to any individual not
authorized to receive classified information, knowing that the
information disclosed so identifies such covert agent and that the
United States is taking affirmative measures to conceal such covert
agent's intelligence relationship to the United States, shall be
fined under title 18 or imprisoned not more than ten years, or
both.
(b) Disclosure of information by persons who learn identity of
covert agents as result of having access to classified
information
Whoever, as a result of having authorized access to classified
information, learns the identify of a covert agent and
intentionally discloses any information identifying such covert
agent to any individual not authorized to receive classified
information, knowing that the information disclosed so identifies
such covert agent and that the United States is taking affirmative
measures to conceal such covert agent's intelligence relationship
to the United States, shall be fined under title 18 or imprisoned
not more than five years, or both.
(c) Disclosure of information by persons in course of pattern of
activities intended to identify and expose covert agents
Whoever, in the course of a pattern of activities intended to
identify and expose covert agents and with reason to believe that
such activities would impair or impede the foreign intelligence
activities of the United States, discloses any information that
identifies an individual as a covert agent to any individual not
authorized to receive classified information, knowing that the
information disclosed so identifies such individual and that the
United States is taking affirmative measures to conceal such
individual's classified intelligence relationship to the United
States, shall be fined under title 18 or imprisoned not more than
three years, or both.
(d) Imposition of consecutive sentences
A term of imprisonment imposed under this section shall be
consecutive to any other sentence of imprisonment. http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/caseco...ction_421.html | According to Armitage he learned of her in a non-classified memo which is why he didn't think she was covert: Quote:
ARMITAGE: They’re not words on which I disagree. I think it was extraordinarily foolish of me. There was no ill-intent on my part and I had never seen ever, in 43 years of having a security clearance, a covert operative’s name in a memo. The only reason I knew a “Mrs. Wilson,” not “Mrs. Plame,” worked at the agency was because I saw it in a memo. But I don’t disagree with her words to a large measure.
BLITZER: Normally in memos they don’t name covert operatives?
ARMITAGE: I have never seen one named.
BLITZER: And so you assumed she was, what, just an analyst over at the CIA?
ARMITAGE: Not only assumed it, that’s what the message said, that she was publicly chairing a meeting. Never Yet Melted Richard Armitage Did Not Think Valerie Plame Was Covert |
Last edited by section eight : 07-21-08 at 02:27 PM.
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07-21-08, 02:32 PM
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#76 (permalink)
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Lean: Liberal Gender:  | Re: Bush claims privilege to withhold CIA leak records Quote:
Originally Posted by section eight Well according to the news coverage he assumed she was not covert, he was not intentionally outing a CIA agent and as per Section 421 of U.S. Code Title 50 intent is key:
According to Armitage he learned of her in a non-classified memo which is why he didn't think she was covert: | Hmmmm...okay. Thanks for posting this. I'll buy he didn't know she was covert. Prior to this, while I believed that Armitage knew of her status, I didn't think he had violated the statute because he did not have the intent as described in it. |
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07-21-08, 02:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Truth Detector Clinton was caught LYING under oath about having SEX with an INTERN in the White House. That is an impeachable offense. He was also DISBARRED for the same offense. | Yes, I know what happened. I am saying that it was ironic that he was faced with such a flurry of legal action stemming from an affair, when the current President has done enough questionable things to have inquiries conducted against him. Note that I say investigation and not conviction, despite your assertion that I am making claims of wrongdoing. Even the President deserves fair legal process. I believe there should at least be a bipartisan (or perhaps non-partisan?) hearing into whether or not an impeachment process has any weight to proceed.
Here are some things he could be brought up on:
1) Following the September 11, 2001 attacks, the Bush administration advocated that suspected Al Qaeda and Taliban members would be designated as "unlawful combatants". They suggested that, as such, they were not protected under the Geneva Conventions. To address the mandatory review by a "competent tribunal" as defined by article five of the Third Geneva Convention, Combatant Status Review Tribunals were established. The American Bar Association, Human Rights Watch, the Council on Foreign Relations and Joanne Mariner from FindLaw have dismissed the use of the unlawful combatant status as not compatible with U.S. and international law. In Hamdan v. Rumsfeld, a majority of the U.S. Supreme Court held that Common Article 3 (CA3) of the Geneva Conventions applies to detainees in the Global War on Terrorism.
2) The CIA has "rendered" suspected terrorists, such as Maher Arar, to other countries. Critics accuse them of doing this in order to avoid U.S. laws prescribing due process and prohibiting torture, calling this "torture by proxy" and "torture flights". Then-U.S. Attorney General Alberto Gonzales explicitly testified to Congress that the administration's position was to extradite detainees to other nations as long as it was not "more likely than not" that they would be tortured, although he later modified that statement. However, the Convention against torture states: No State Party shall expel, return ("refouler") or extradite a person to another State where there are substantial grounds for believing that he would be in danger of being subjected to torture.
3) Lewis "Scooter" Libby, convicted of perjury and obstruction of justice in connection to the investigation of the leak of the identity of CIA agent Valerie Plame, was sentenced to 30 months in prison and a fine of $250,000, which he paid with $400 in additional fees. While Libby's appeal in United States v. Libby was still pending, the presiding judge, Reggie Walton, denied his request for a stay and ordered Libby to begin his prison sentence. Following that decision, Bush commuted Libby's sentence, eliminating the prison term on the basis that the sentence was too harsh and would have lasting effects on Libby's career.
In response, representative Robert Wexler (D-FL) stated he would file a resolution censuring President George W. Bush for the "egregious and politically motivated commutation of Scooter Libby's prison sentence."
4) On April 6, 2006, court papers were filed in the CIA leak grand jury investigation, stating that Libby had testified that Bush authorized the disclosure of select portions of the then classified National Intelligence Estimate (NIE) on Iraq. The position of the Bush administration is that a Presidentially authorized release of material, even if it does not go through the formal declassification procedure, is not a "leak", because Presidents are authorized to de-classify material and the release of de-classified material is not leaking. This contradicts previous statements by Bush in which he made clear that leaking classified information is unacceptable. According to the court filings by Fitzgerald:
“ Defendant (Libby) testified that this July 8 meeting was the only time he recalled in his government experience when he disclosed a document to a reporter that was effectively declassified by virtue of the President’s authorization that it be declassified.”
5) In March 2007 it became known that eight United States Attorneys were dismissed. The Bush administration has issued changing and contradictory statements about the timeline of the planning of the firings, persons who ordered the firings, and reasons for the firings. Congressmen investigating these dismissals stated that sworn testimony from Department of Justice officials contradicts internal Department memos and e-mails.
Because of that, and the uncommon nature of these firings, critics suggest ulterior motives. Among them, Elizabeth Holtzman and Cynthia L. Cooper wrote that: "we may be witnessing criminal acts of obstruction of justice at the highest levels of government." They allege that the attorneys were fired as retribution for prosecuting Republicans, for failing to prosecute enough Democrats, and/or for non-existent voter-fraud. This supposed fraud led The New York Times to the following response:
"Last week, we learned that the administration edited a government-ordered report on voter fraud to support its fantasy. The original version concluded that among experts "there is widespread but not unanimous agreement that there is little polling place fraud." But the publicly released version said, "There is a great deal of debate on the pervasiveness of fraud." It's hard to see that as anything but a deliberate effort to mislead the public."
6) Bush has asserted broad executive powers, attributing them to his position as Commander-in-Chief and to the war on terrorism. These have been used to justify policies connected with the war in Iraq. Constitutional law expert Glenn Greenwald attributes Bush's interpretation of the authority of the president to a series of legal memos by John Yoo, identifies this expansive interpretation as the common thread shared by the other Bush controversies, and indicates that this interpretation is based on combining the powers of all three branches of government in the single person of the President, and is therefore the diametric opposite of the text and the Founding Fathers' intended meaning of the Constitution |
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07-21-08, 02:42 PM
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| Re: Bush claims privilege to withhold CIA leak records Quote:
Originally Posted by aps Hmmmm...okay. Thanks for posting this. I'll buy he didn't know she was covert. Prior to this, while I believed that Armitage knew of her status, I didn't think he had violated the statute because he did not have the intent as described in it. | It was still a stupid thing for him to have done but I don't believe it is a prosecutable offense.
Back onto the OP, according to the SCOTUS case I believe that Executive Privilege is presumed unless the prosecutor can provide a "sufficient showing" that the material or testimony is necessary for the "justice of the case", (418 U.S. at 713-14). And since (IIRC) Special Independent Prosecutor Patrick Fitizgerald has rested his case and it hasn't even been adequately shown that a crime has in fact been committed then Executive Privilege would appear to apply. Quote:
Upon receiving a claim of privilege from the Chief Executive, it became the further duty of the District Court to treat the subpoenaed material as presumptively privileged and to require the Special Prosecutor to demonstrate that the Presidential material was "essential to the justice of the [pending criminal] case." United States v. Burr, 25 F. Cas., at 192. Here the District Court treated the material as presumptively privileged, proceeded to find that the Special [418 U.S. 683, 714] Prosecutor had made a sufficient showing to rebut the presumption, and ordered an in camera examination of the subpoenaed material. FindLaw | Cases and Codes |
Last edited by section eight : 07-21-08 at 02:51 PM.
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07-21-08, 02:56 PM
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#79 (permalink)
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Lean: Liberal Gender:  | Re: Bush claims privilege to withhold CIA leak records Quote:
Originally Posted by section eight It was still a stupid thing for him to have done but I don't believe it is a prosecutable offense.
Back onto the OP, according to the SCOTUS case I believe that Executive Privilege is presumed unless the prosecutor can provide a "sufficient showing" that the material or testimony is necessary for the "justice of the case", (418 U.S. at 713-14). And since (IIRC) Special Independent Prosecutor Patrick Fitizgerald has rested his case and it hasn't even been adequately shown that a crime has in fact been committed then Executive Privilege would appear to apply. | I haven't studied this enough to agree with your assessment that Executive Privilege applies here. I don't think it should apply to the inquiry regarding the Justice Department.  |
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07-21-08, 03:04 PM
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| Re: Bush claims privilege to withhold CIA leak records Quote:
Originally Posted by aps I haven't studied this enough to agree with your assessment that Executive Privilege applies here. I don't think it should apply to the inquiry regarding the Justice Department.  | Well according to the current precedent of the ratio decidendi found in the U.S. V. Nixon case it would apply unless the prosecutor can provide sufficient showing that these material are necessary to proving the crime. |
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