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*Breaking News* U.S., Czech missile deal prompts Moscow warning; I dont get the point of it who is this aimed at being defended from?...

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Old 07-09-08, 10:32 AM   #21 (permalink)
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Re: Har har har! Russia threatens war.

I dont get the point of it who is this aimed at being defended from?
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Old 07-09-08, 10:50 AM   #22 (permalink)
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Re: Har har har! Russia threatens war.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mikhail View Post
I dont get the point of it who is this aimed at being defended from?
From whom is the NMD-E supposed to defend Europe?

Hmmm....

My Way News - Iran test-fires missiles in Persian Gulf
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Old 07-09-08, 11:08 AM   #23 (permalink)
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Re: Har har har! Russia threatens war.

There is no evidence that a missile defense shield would even work. Yes, it's true that we could only obtain first hand evidence through experience, but lets hope it never comes to that.

I can understand why Russia would be mad. It's a basic fact in polisci 101 that defensive technology is often indistinguishable from offensive technology. Just because the U.S. is claiming that it will be used for defense doesn't mean it actually will. Given the current modus operandi in U.S. foreign policy right now, I don't consider Russia's response to be an over reaction.

If Russia were putting missiles near American soil, it would be met with the same response, or worse.
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Old 07-09-08, 11:09 AM   #24 (permalink)
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Re: Har har har! Russia threatens war.

The real reason to deploy systems in EU is to convince Iran and others it is a waste of time and money to develop missile delivery systems that could reach EU or North America.
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Old 07-09-08, 11:10 AM   #25 (permalink)
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Re: Har har har! Russia threatens war.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
From whom is the NMD-E supposed to defend Europe?

Hmmm....

My Way News - Iran test-fires missiles in Persian Gulf
You win a cigar, Goobieman! The intent is to protect the Europeans as well as the US from a ballistic launch out of Iran.

However, the Russians are sensitive to the impression that the US and NATO is slowly encircling it and encroaching on it's "near abroad" which it considers to be its geopolitical sphere of influence. The Bear feels it we are encroaching on its lair and it's growing aggrevated and defensive.
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Old 07-09-08, 11:33 AM   #26 (permalink)
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Re: Har har har! Russia threatens war.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Orius View Post
There is no evidence that a missile defense shield would even work.
The testing program says otherwise.

Quote:
I can understand why Russia would be mad. It's a basic fact in polisci 101 that defensive technology is often indistinguishable from offensive technology
Explain how that can be the case here.
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Old 07-09-08, 12:05 PM   #27 (permalink)
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Re: Har har har! Russia threatens war.

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Bare Knuckled Pundit View Post
You win a cigar, Goobieman! The intent is to protect the Europeans as well as the US from a ballistic launch out of Iran.

However, the Russians are sensitive to the impression that the US and NATO is slowly encircling it and encroaching on it's "near abroad" which it considers to be its geopolitical sphere of influence. The Bear feels it we are encroaching on its lair and it's growing aggrevated and defensive.
Could Iran even hit the U.S?
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Old 07-09-08, 12:16 PM   #28 (permalink)
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Re: Har har har! Russia threatens war.

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Originally Posted by Red_Dave View Post
Could Iran even hit the U.S?
Not at this point... but they -are- very close to being able to hit Europe, which is the reason for the NMD possibly going there...
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Old 07-09-08, 12:27 PM   #29 (permalink)
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Re: Har har har! Russia threatens war.

It's my understanding that the ground-based interceptors are only capable of knocking out one target at a time, at substantial financial cost. If an enemy, or group of enemies, fires more than one missile at a time, it could render the system ineffective. Okay, I do admit that if even one nuclear missile is knocked out it could prevent a holocaust, but it isn't realistic to tout that this is a surefire defense program based on tests wherein they were dealing with single targets.

Which begs the question... are we expecting some kind of nuclear war with the Middle East? Why all the defense around the region?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Goobieman
Explain how that can be the case here.
Exerpts from here: Russia totally opposes plans, stating that a European missile system, so close to the Russian border, is akin to the Cuban missile crisis in the 1960s where the US and Soviet Union went to the brink of nuclear war...

As predicted, the future development of a European US missile shield has caused very loud opposition from Russian President Vladimir Putin, directly highlighting that such a move would cause another arms race and could create a nuclear standoff between Russia, US and Europe in between

The US missile shield concept depends on European fast response missiles to be launched as soon as the threat of imminent attack is detected from aggressors in the Middle East and beyond.
---------------------------------------

Any missiles that can be launched for defense can also be launched for offense. Russia's response indicates this, as they are concerned it will trigger another arms race. This is also known as a security dilemma (see: polisci 101)... in order to ensure one's security, one must have weapons capable of countering enemy weapons. Then once you build more weapons, so does the opposition, ad infinitum. The U.S. is trying to enforce the idea on paper that these are for defense only, such as with security agreements, so that Russia will not feel threatened and in turn develop counter-weapons. The U.S. wants to avoid the security dilemma. The problem is that such agreements overshadows the fact that, in their very nature, ground based interceptors can also be used offensively. There is also the potential that the launchers could someday be used to launch other types of missiles via potential modification. Once the installations are built, it opens the door to other avenues.

I'm not making claims on whether the U.S. would ever make such modifications, but the mere possibility leads to a security dilemma with Russia. We should not be at all surprised by Russia's reaction. The U.S. would be reacting the same way if missile installations were being built within a few thousand kilometres of its borders.
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Old 07-09-08, 12:49 PM   #30 (permalink)
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Re: Har har har! Russia threatens war.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Orius View Post
It's my understanding that the ground-based interceptors are only capable of knocking out one target at a time, at substantial financial cost.
One target per interceptor. Yes.
That's how it usually works when using missiles to shoot things down.
Cost? Compared to the incoming warhead going off over its target...?

Quote:
If an enemy, or group of enemies, fires more than one missile at a time, it could render the system ineffective.
Except that the NMD has more than one GBI.

Quote:
Okay, I do admit that if even one nuclear missile is knocked out it could prevent a holocaust, but it isn't realistic to tout that this is a surefire defense program based on tests wherein they were dealing with single targets.
Given that each interceptor is intended to engage a single target, why is this an issue?

Quote:
Russia totally opposes plans, stating that a European missile system, so close to the Russian border, is akin to the Cuban missile crisis in the 1960s where the US and Soviet Union went to the brink of nuclear war...
Anyoe that understands the GBI and the Cuban missile crisis will immediately dismiss this as utterly silly.

Quote:
As predicted, the future development of a European US missile shield has caused very loud opposition from Russian President Vladimir Putin, directly highlighting that such a move would cause another arms race and could create a nuclear standoff between Russia, US and Europe in between
Again: This argument is utterly silly. 10 interceptors has abolutely no effect on Russia's nuclear deterrent.

Quote:
The US missile shield concept depends on European fast response missiles to be launched as soon as the threat of imminent attack is detected from aggressors in the Middle East and beyond.
Actually, the'te launched once they achieve a firing solution to the incoming targets.

Quote:
Any missiles that can be launched for defense can also be launched for offense.
Explain how this can be, when the interceptors do not and cannot carry warheads.

No offense, but you dont know enough about the NMD/GBI system to have this conversation.
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