Water-Powered Car Demonstrated in Japan

Skip · 06-19-08, 10:40 PM

Who knows what ramifications this will have...

Quote:

Developed by Genepax in Japan, this commuter vehicle is able to travel at 80km/h for one hour on just a single litre of water. The concept is much the same as other fuel cell vehicles, except you don't need to feed the car with straight hydrogen. The Water Energy System (WES) and Membrane Electrode Assembly (MEA) are used to separate the hydrogen from the oxygen in water. Details are slim by they say this is accomplished through some sort of chemical reaction.

Water-Powered Car Demonstrated in Japan (Video)

rathi · 06-19-08, 10:57 PM

From what I have seen is that either the articles aren't quoting them correctly, or they are making claims that break the laws of physics. Treat this with heavy skepticism.

Skip · 06-19-08, 11:11 PM

I'm no scientist, but if we can get cars to run on hydrogen, why couldn't we break apart a water molecule and just release the oxygen?

rathi · 06-19-08, 11:19 PM

The wikipedia article explains it pretty clearly. You need energy to break the water into oxygen and hydrogen.

Genepax - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Lachean · 06-20-08, 10:15 AM

Lisa! In This House We Respect The Laws Of Thermodynamics!

Ikari · 06-20-08, 10:32 AM

It looked to me that there was a power source of sorts used for the disassociation process in the back seat. You can't just break down water by itself and run a car and make water in the end. It takes more energy to break down the water then you'll get on the outside, so there's definitely a necessary secondary source necessary to break down the water into oxygen and hydrogen.

Indy · 06-20-08, 12:50 PM

I don't really want to get into this too deeply but a car running on water does not violate the first or the second law of thermodynamics. These laws are thrown about quite often by people who don't understand them (see creationism arguments for examples).

If this car were to run ENTIRELY on water, yes that would be a violation. Clearly though this car still has a battery, which will eventually be consumed and die, i.e. no violation of the first law. As for the second law, the increase in entropy, I'm not exactly sure why anyone would think that a water fueled car would violate this. A car can NEVER be considered a closed system so therefore the second law of thermodynamics isn't even applicable.

Ikari · 06-20-08, 01:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Indy

I don't really want to get into this too deeply but a car running on water does not violate the first or the second law of thermodynamics. These laws are thrown about quite often by people who don't understand them (see creationism arguments for examples).

If this car were to run ENTIRELY on water, yes that would be a violation. Clearly though this car still has a battery, which will eventually be consumed and die, i.e. no violation of the first law. As for the second law, the increase in entropy, I'm not exactly sure why anyone would think that a water fueled car would violate this. A car can NEVER be considered a closed system so therefore the second law of thermodynamics isn't even applicable.

That's not what is being claimed by the company. They say water goes in, water comes out and that's the only reactant and product of the engine. Nothing else, no battery no external energy source, no nothing. The car clearly can not run if the engine violated the second law of thermodynamics, so obviously there is external energy sources somewhere for the disassociation process. But for what the company claims is going on, it couldn't work as it does violate the second law of thermodynamics.

Lachean · 06-20-08, 01:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Indy

I don't really want to get into this too deeply but a car running on water does not violate the first or the second law of thermodynamics. These laws are thrown about quite often by people who don't understand them (see creationism arguments for examples).

If this car were to run ENTIRELY on water, yes that would be a violation. Clearly though this car still has a battery, which will eventually be consumed and die, i.e. no violation of the first law. As for the second law, the increase in entropy, I'm not exactly sure why anyone would think that a water fueled car would violate this. A car can NEVER be considered a closed system so therefore the second law of thermodynamics isn't even applicable.

I don't think anyone said that "a car powered by water violates the laws of thermodynamics" Rathi quite clearly stated that:

Quote:

Originally Posted by rathi

From what I have seen is that either the articles aren't quoting them correctly, or they are making claims that break the laws of physics. Treat this with heavy skepticism.

rathi said this because the article itself clearly states that:

"we see another car that is powered completely by good old H2O"

Powered "completely" by liquid H20 was the claim in question that violated the laws, given that if h20 were the only source, that isn't a closed system but a system producing more energy than intrinsically exists in its fuel source.

More out than in is NOT physically possible.

Indy · 06-20-08, 01:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ikari

That's not what is being claimed by the company. They say water goes in, water comes out and that's the only reactant and product of the engine. Nothing else, no battery no external energy source, no nothing. The car clearly can not run if the engine violated the second law of thermodynamics, so obviously there is external energy sources somewhere for the disassociation process. But for what the company claims is going on, it couldn't work as it does violate the second law of thermodynamics.

I'm not sure what the company exactly is claiming about this car, I only bothered to watch the video once and it was during work so only half of my brain was paying attention. If they are claiming that absolutely no other source of energy is present then, yes, they are full of it. If this is the case, I don't really blame the company or the engineers as much as their stupid marketing people who wanted to generalize the process for the common man. No battery = violation of the 1st law, which as far as we know if impossible so there obviously has to be a battery.