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Attorney General Gonzalez Resigns

Stinger said:
No more than if you were trying to serve the President with honor and integrity.

Don't you understand that Presidents since Washington have always been able to have frank and open discussions with their advisor's that are NOT subject to public scrutiny? That Presidents even call in private citizens and have frank and open discussions with them and that the private citizen needs to know that what they say won't be on the front page of the paper the next day.

Your idealism clouds rational judgment.
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Well, I just hope you'll forgive me for not being particularly impressed with what politicians have done with that privilege.

I also hope you'll forgive my skepticism for your outrage as you seem more than happy to have this treatment inflicted upon future Democratic presidents.
 
Adrian said:
Well, I just hope you'll forgive me for not being particularly impressed with what politicians have done with that privilege.
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Like almost every policy decision ever made?

I also hope you'll forgive my skepticism for your outrage as you seem more than happy to have this treatment inflicted upon future Democratic presidents.
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The precedent has been set, this is the way the Dems are going to operate you better believe I hope the Reps engage in kind, isn't turn about fair play?
 
Stinger said:
Like almost every policy decision ever made?

Yup.

The precedent has been set, this is the way the Dems are going to operate you better believe I hope the Reps engage in kind, isn't turn about fair play?
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Sure, haven't I made myself clear on this already? So are you prepared to accept congress's investigations into all of Bush's confidential affairs forthwith, knowing full well that it'll be returned in kind by the Republicans, and knowing full well that'll be returned in kind by the Democrats, etc. for all time? As Democrats and Republicans both will claim that it's okay for them to do it because the other did it before them, Pandora's box is good and well opened, and nothing is getting it shut again. Agreed?
 
Pardon me if anyone else has asked this question- I haven't read the whole thread, just the first half- but if the Democrats can use simple harrassment to force anyone to either resign or face jail time- why didn't Karl Rove go Sooner? Why didn't Cheney get pushed out? Why hasn't Bush been impeached? Why is Ann Coulter still alive? Etc...
 
It's going to be hard for Bush to find a replacement with the honesty and integrity of Alberto Gonzales.


Here's a quick trip down memory lane to revisit one of the highlights of his tenure :


Q: If FISA didn't work, why didn't you seek a new statute that allowed something like this legally?

GONZALES: That question was asked earlier. We've had discussions with members of Congress, certain members of Congress, about whether or not we could get an amendment to FISA, and we were advised that that was not likely to be -- that was not something we could likely get, certainly not without jeopardizing the existence of the program, and therefore, killing the program. And that -- and so a decision was made that because we felt that the authorities were there, that we should continue moving forward with this program.

Attorney General Alberto Gonzales
December 19, 2005







GOLD HAT: We are Federales . . . You know, the mounted police.

DOBBS: If you're the police, where are your badges?

GOLD HAT: [puzzled pause] "Badges? We ain't got no badges. We don't need no badges! [angry] I don't have to show you any stinking badges!

Treasure of the Sierra Madre
1948
 
rhinefire said:
You know NOW, not on the day he did it. Some things are obvious but why not wait and let some INFORMATION come forth before you claim to know everything.
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We knew the day Nixon resigned why he resigned. And we know today why Gonsalez resigned. He resigned because of the political pressure he created when he nakedly abused power and conducted a political purge.

Why did Hitler shoot himself? Was it because of the rapidly advancing Soviet army, destroying all that he had labored to build? Of course we know now. But how could they have known then?

It does not behoove conservatives to play the history game, liberals have far more degrees in it then they do.
 
chevydriver1123 said:
Micheal Chertoff is going to replace Gonzo? WTF!!! Chertoff is nothing but an incompetent fool, he is the head of the biggest bureaucratic institution in the country which isnt doing jack with a side of **** to defend the borders and ports. Is he going to judge law based on his ''gut'' feelings too?
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In the Bush White House it has been consistantly shown that ideological purity trumps ability.

I'm going to use a metaphor I've used before: the "Red Versus Right" debate of Communist China. The Maoists really and truly believed that a true believer, a total adherant of the ideology, would perform technical tasks with superior abillity to those who had superior skills but lacked the ideological pedigree.

They don't care what you can or can't do, as long as you can be counted on to uphold the faith. As long as you believe in the triumvirate of Jesus, Free Enterprise and Hatred of Democrats you are qualified for anything.

Gonsalez fired many qualified members of our government not because they were unable to perform their duties, but because they did not meet the Bush administrations standards for political purity. That was not illigal. The President should have the abillity to fire members of his administration. But the President should have the decency to recognize the legitimacy of dissent. The President should realize when he wins an election he has not been given the precedent use his office to obliterate all opposing ideology.These are things that cannot be legislated. They require decency, respect and intelligence. None of those things are present in this administration, none of those things are present in the Republican party leadership and I am very seriously beginning to doubt whether they are present in large segments of our country today.

If this country was not so free, if this country was not protected by so great a document as the Constitution, people like Karl Rove, Dick Cheney and Alberto Gonsalez would have suceeded in quelching all forms of dissent. They would have turned our great government into an entity which espouses only one ideology, only one view point- theirs. That is what they want to do, that is what they have consistantly tried to do and, thankfully, that is what it appears they have failed to do.
 
new coup for you said:
In the Bush White House it has been consistantly shown that ideological purity trumps ability.

I'm going to use a metaphor I've used before: the "Red Versus Right" debate of Communist China. The Maoists really and truly believed that a true believer, a total adherant of the ideology, would perform technical tasks with superior abillity to those who had superior skills but lacked the ideological pedigree.

They don't care what you can or can't do, as long as you can be counted on to uphold the faith. As long as you believe in the triumvirate of Jesus, Free Enterprise and Hatred of Democrats you are qualified for anything.

Gonsalez fired many qualified members of our government not because they were unable to perform their duties, but because they did not meet the Bush administrations standards for political purity. That was not illigal. The President should have the abillity to fire members of his administration. But the President should have the decency to recognize the legitimacy of dissent. The President should realize when he wins an election he has not been given the precedent use his office to obliterate all opposing ideology.These are things that cannot be legislated. They require decency, respect and intelligence. None of those things are present in this administration, none of those things are present in the Republican party leadership and I am very seriously beginning to doubt whether they are present in large segments of our country today.

If this country was not so free, if this country was not protected by so great a document as the Constitution, people like Karl Rove, Dick Cheney and Alberto Gonsalez would have suceeded in quelching all forms of dissent. They would have turned our great government into an entity which espouses only one ideology, only one view point- theirs. That is what they want to do, that is what they have consistantly tried to do and, thankfully, that is what it appears they have failed to do.
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Again, nothing in your diatribe refutes the fact that Chertoff would be incredibly qualified for the AG post.
 
That is a debate that would be just so much fun to have.

And my rant wasnt really about Chertoff (for what it's worth I think he's more qualified then Gonsalez was) it was about the general practices of the right today.
 
Sounds like Chertoff is getting the nod from Bush to replace Gonzales. I don't get it. If Gonzeles really did nothing wrong and this is all a witch hunt, then why is he resigning?
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Who cares why Gonzales is resigning?
We should all just be thankful that he is.

Do you guys remember the Harriet Meyer debacle- when Bush nominated her for the SC? Did you know that the other candidate he was strongly considering for the spot was none other than his good buddy Alberto 'Torture-Time' Gonzales?

Does anybody else remember that? It was all over the media at the time.
The only reason Gonzales ultimately wasn't nominated was because he's a longtime supporter of abortion rights (this stretches back to his years on the Texas Supreme Court) and the GOP wasn't having it; they demanded that Bush fill supreme court vacancies with abortion opponents.
 
Why he was "resigned" is important. The most probable cause is that the Republicans are bowing to increased Democratic power. The more hopeful reason would be that they're not completely morally bankrupt and have seen the damage they've done to our political system. The later is wrong.
 
Adrian said:
Sure, haven't I made myself clear on this already? So are you prepared to accept congress's investigations into all of Bush's confidential affairs forthwith
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Absolutely not where on earth did you get that idea. But that is the precedent they set I wish they hadn't.

Do you accept and support the Dems using the warrantless investigations, you know the ones that go "since we have no evidence we must investigate to see if there is any evidence" witch hunts they engage in? Will you object when the Republicans respond in kind?

, knowing full well that it'll be returned in kind by the Republicans, and knowing full well that'll be returned in kind by the Democrats, etc. for all time?
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Hey vote the Dems out of office and then maybe it will stop.
As Democrats and Republicans both will claim that it's okay for them to do it because the other did it before them, Pandora's box is good and well opened, and nothing is getting it shut again. Agreed?
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Reid, Pelosi, Schumer, et al, don't you just love them. But if that is how they want to government to operate then they can expect that it goes both ways. And I can't wait to see the Republicans have free reign to force a Hillary Clinton WH to turn over ALL their documents and emails so they can be picked over with a fine tooth comb to find anything her advisor's can be brought before congress under oath. Then we can compare them all and when we find any discrepancy we can issue criminal charges and have the thrown in jail. Pendulums swing as pendulums do.
 
chevydriver1123 said:
I just saw the reaction of Hillary Clinton and she was clapping and laughing. I thought that was pretty funny.
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It's really pretty sad that that is what they have turned running the government into. But what goes around comes around.
 
new coup for you said:
We knew the day Nixon resigned why he resigned. And we know today why Gonsalez resigned. He resigned because of the political pressure he created when he nakedly abused power and conducted a political purge.
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One problem with your conclusion, not even the partisan Dems have turned up a shred of evidence anything in the management of the US Attorneys was illegal of improperly politically based.

He resigned because he doesn't have to take the abuse and mistreatment the Dems in the congress have engaged in, no one does. And a lot of good people will never serve in government because of them.
 
RightinNYC said:
Do you actually think this is the case? You think that if a conservative Bush appointee is "good and honest" that the left will refrain from criticizing any and every little thing they can find to grab onto? Similarly, you think that if a Democratic president appoints liberals who are "good and honest" that the right will give them free passes?

Not a chance in hell. It's politics.
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I was thinking that was quite a naive point of view as well.

Being good and right does not protect you in any way and in many cases intensifies your enemies desire to pull you down to their level.
 
Stinger said:
This isn't about your father, this was about a power abuse by the Dems. Good people won't serve in these positions and have to put up with the nonsense coming from the Dems and their egregious character assassinations.
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Oh stop it. The moronic power abuse comes from both sides of the partisan spectrum. Claiming it is Democrats only, is partisan in itself.
 
Stinger said:
I think it's pretty clear, he doesn't have to put up with the nonsense and character attacks the Democrat leadership and leading their party into. He can go get a very good job elsewhere thankyouverymuch.

But if a Dem president gets in I hope all of their appointees and their advisors get the same treatment, subpoena's for all their emails every time they make a decision, if any USAG's are fired then all the emails and private discussions in the Oval Office will be investigated.
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You mean partisan which-hunting like Clinton experienced? It happens to both sides, Stinger, both sides.
 
Stinger said:
Yet you won't find anyone on board with an administration or Senatorial staff.

How do you expect leaders to receive unbias'd unfiltered advice, suggestions, discussions of policy matters if the person giving the advice, suggestions or discussion knows that everything they say in the room is public record. Something which has NEVER been?
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Ummm...maybe this would be a way to keep them honest?
 
new coup for you said:
Why he was "resigned" is important. The most probable cause is that the Republicans are bowing to increased Democratic power. The more hopeful reason would be that they're not completely morally bankrupt and have seen the damage they've done to our political system. The later is wrong.
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I think the GOP national party pressured him because his remaining in office carried such incredible negatives for the GOP...in simple words it was a political decision, nothing more.

BTW - Are you all aware that the top 3 positions in the Justice Department are now open, unfilled, not occupied? This is the first time in the history of the Justice Department that all three top jobs are vacant...and all three are due to the inept mishandling of the US Attorney firings....

This is just another nail in the "Bush is the worst President EVER" coffin.

How great is that in the last couple of weeks both Karl Rove and Alberto Gonzales are gone for good? All we need now is for Adolph Cheney and Bozo Bush to resign and all will be right in Smallville.....:cool:
 
Stinger said:
One problem with your conclusion, not even the partisan Dems have turned up a shred of evidence anything in the management of the US Attorneys was illegal of improperly politically based.

He resigned because he doesn't have to take the abuse and mistreatment the Dems in the congress have engaged in, no one does. And a lot of good people will never serve in government because of them.
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Wrong! He was fired because he's an incompetent AG who embarrassed himself, his President, his party and his country. Have you forgotten his version of what torture is or how he lied to Congress or how he tried to force a critically ill AG (Ashcroft) to approve of warrentless wiretapping that almost caused mass resignations had he succeeded?

He will always be one of the very worst AGs ever and thank God he's gone and thank God that Bush has one foot out of the door.
 
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