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US speaker meets Assad despite Bush anger

Wait oh wait, Laura Bush was meeting with our allies with the consent of our President and was not negotiating anything and Nancy Pelosi was meeting with our enemies against the wishes of our President to negotiate with a state sponsor of terrorism in order to set up a secondary foreign policy contrary to that of the President.

Jeez what an unabashed moron you are.

1) No, Pelosi met first with the leader of Israel, and then took a peace proposal to Syria FROM Israel, something that was recommended by the Baker Commission. In essence, doing Bush's job, because, in his petulance, he refuses to do it himself.

2) The unabashed moron in this case is president Bush.

3) After the 2008 election, there won't be any arguing over this at all, because there will be NO Republicans involved in foreign policy of any kind for a very, very long time.

4) You and the other Bushneviks keep whining about Pelosi's trip, and get used to it, because that is all you are going to have after next year's elections, and it may very well last you the rest of your life.
 
Originally Posted by danarhea
1) No, Pelosi met first with the leader of Israel, and then took a peace proposal to Syria FROM Israel, something that was recommended by the Baker Commission. In essence, doing Bush's job, because, in his petulance, he refuses to do it himself.

It's not her job to do. She has violated years of U.S. policy by setting up a dualistic foreign policy and negotiating with state sponsors of terror against U.S. wishes.


4) You and the other Bushneviks keep whining about Pelosi's trip, and get used to it, because that is all you are going to have after next year's elections, and it may very well last you the rest of your life.
Not when the Democrats get their way and the U.S. is forced to surrender Iraq to the terrorists and a genocide insues, the Democrats will own our defeat in Iraq and the American people will know who to blame.
 
It's not her job to do. She has violated years of U.S. policy by setting up a dualistic foreign policy and negotiating with state sponsors of terror against U.S. wishes.



Not when the Democrats get their way and the U.S. is forced to surrender Iraq to the terrorists and a genocide insues, the Democrats will own our defeat in Iraq and the American people will know who to blame.

1) Against US wishes? Who is the US? The people, of course. Bush has failed to carry out the will of the American people, so someone from Congress stepped in and is doing it. If Bush doesn't like it, he can always get on his knees in front of the Supreme Court, the third CO-EQUAL branch of government, and see if they care.

2) Bush already surrendered Iraq to the terrorists the very minute he decided that he could run a war on the cheap.

NOTE: Is there an echo in this forum? :lol:
 
Wait oh wait, Laura Bush was meeting with our allies with the consent of our President and was not negotiating anything and Nancy Pelosi was meeting with our enemies against the wishes of our President to negotiate with a state sponsor of terrorism in order to set up a secondary foreign policy contrary to that of the President.
Excellent post. For others to turn their blind partisan hate-filled heads to these obvious differences is laughable.
 
The WP has been a frequent critic of various aspects of the Bush administration. Here is their take on the Pelosi visit:

House Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.) offered an excellent demonstration yesterday of why members of Congress should not attempt to supplant the secretary of state when traveling abroad. . . .

HOUSE SPEAKER Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.) offered an excellent demonstration yesterday of why members of Congress should not attempt to supplant the secretary of state when traveling abroad. After a meeting with Syrian dictator Bashar al-Assad in Damascus, Ms. Pelosi announced that she had delivered a message from Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Olmert that "Israel was ready to engage in peace talks" with Syria. What's more, she added, Mr. Assad was ready to "resume the peace process" as well. Having announced this seeming diplomatic breakthrough, Ms. Pelosi suggested that her Kissingerian shuttle diplomacy was just getting started. "We expressed our interest in using our good offices in promoting peace between Israel and Syria," she said.

Only one problem: The Israeli prime minister entrusted Ms. Pelosi with no such message. "What was communicated to the U.S. House Speaker does not contain any change in the policies of Israel," said a statement quickly issued by the prime minister's office. In fact, Mr. Olmert told Ms. Pelosi that "a number of Senate and House members who recently visited Damascus received the impression that despite the declarations of Bashar Assad, there is no change in the position of his country regarding a possible peace process with Israel." In other words, Ms. Pelosi not only misrepresented Israel's position but was virtually alone in failing to discern that Mr. Assad's words were mere propaganda.
[...]
The really striking development here is the attempt by a Democratic congressional leader to substitute her own foreign policy for that of a sitting Republican president. Two weeks ago Ms. Pelosi rammed legislation through the House of Representatives that would strip Mr. Bush of his authority as commander in chief to manage troop movements in Iraq. Now she is attempting to introduce a new Middle East policy that directly conflicts with that of the president. We have found much to criticize in Mr. Bush's military strategy and regional diplomacy. But Ms. Pelosi's attempt to establish a shadow presidency is not only counterproductive, it is foolish.
[emphasis added]

Note in particular Pelosi's presumption to speak for Israel.

In a general sense, there is absolutely nothing wrong with any congressperson visiting Syrai, Iran or wherever, in the pursuit of diplomacy. However, to do so in contravention of the policies of whatever administration is in power at the time, to present views that are unauthorized, to present views that are personal views but presented wearing the mantle of a US government official, is totally counterproductive, regardless of however benign they may be, or however much you individually may agree with them. In diplomacy, it is extremely important that any country present a united front, to speak with one voice. At home, have all the demonstrations against any administration that you want, but when representatives of your government, regardless of whether its the US or Brit or whomever, are face to face with those of an adversary (real or would-be) you must speak with one voice. Anything else, as the WP asserts, is counterproductive.
 
It appears the troll has moved on.

This is the most important development regarding this entire issue:

Only one problem: The Israeli prime minister entrusted Ms. Pelosi with no such message. "What was communicated to the U.S. House Speaker does not contain any change in the policies of Israel," said a statement quickly issued by the prime minister's office. In fact, Mr. Olmert told Ms. Pelosi that "a number of Senate and House members who recently visited Damascus received the impression that despite the declarations of Bashar Assad, there is no change in the position of his country regarding a possible peace process with Israel." In other words, Ms. Pelosi not only misrepresented Israel's position but was virtually alone in failing to discern that Mr. Assad's words were mere propaganda.
[...]
The really striking development here is the attempt by a Democratic congressional leader to substitute her own foreign policy for that of a sitting Republican president. Two weeks ago Ms. Pelosi rammed legislation through the House of Representatives that would strip Mr. Bush of his authority as commander in chief to manage troop movements in Iraq. Now she is attempting to introduce a new Middle East policy that directly conflicts with that of the president. We have found much to criticize in Mr. Bush's military strategy and regional diplomacy. But Ms. Pelosi's attempt to establish a shadow presidency is not only counterproductive, it is foolish.



She wants so badly to be a hero and to show up this countries administration, she blunders to an extreme - jeapardizing foreign relations and national security.
 
Moderator's Warning:
EVERYONE here needs to sty on topic or you'll be banned from this thread.
 
Oh and she wore a Hajib:

[

No she did not wear a hajib, hajibs are worn around the neck. She wore the scarf in a western style tied under the neck. No self respecting muslim would call her scarf a hajib. And yeah I know this because I grew up in Malaysia.
Besides she was about to enter a mosque containing John the Baptistis remains. She met the Syrian president without a head scarf man to man so to speak.

Now this is a hajib! (I know, us women and our sily nit pickin fashion sense)
 

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Moderator's Warning:
EVERYONE here needs to sty on topic or you'll be banned from this thread.
I would say only those straying from the topic are the ones who should be warned. There is nothing appealing about lazy moderating.
 
She wants so badly to be a hero and to show up this countries administration, she blunders to an extreme - jeapardizing foreign relations and national security.

Unlike Republican lawmakers (even "key" ones) trolling around the world telling world leaders and politicans not to "listen to Clinton" when he was in office?

Or the fact that totaly blows over everyone, that republican lawmakers were on the trip, and others are going at a later date and yes they are going to meet Asad also... talk about partisan spin.

As for this latest revelation... anyone provide a link where she personally is quoted in saying Israel had "changed policy" or anything remotely similar? I cant find anything.. best I can find is "she took a message to Damascus", which can mean anything.
 
As for this latest revelation... anyone provide a link where she personally is quoted in saying Israel had "changed policy" or anything remotely similar? I cant find anything.. best I can find is "she took a message to Damascus", which can mean anything.

The WP editorial quoted earlier quotes Pelosi as follows:

Ms. Pelosi announced that she had delivered a message from Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Olmert that "Israel was ready to engage in peace talks" with Syria. What's more, she added, Mr. Assad was ready to "resume the peace process" as well. Having announced this seeming diplomatic breakthrough, Ms. Pelosi suggested that her Kissingerian shuttle diplomacy was just getting started. "We expressed our interest in using our good offices in promoting peace between Israel and Syria," she said.

Another source had this to say about Pelosi's message from Israel:

Jeruslaem & Damascus: Nancy Pelosi, speaker of the US House of Representatives, will convey a message to Syria from Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Olmert, that Israel is interested in peace if Damascus stops supporting terrorism, an Israeli official said Sunday.

Pelosi met Olmert Sunday during the Israel part of her Mideast tour, which has drawn criticism from the White House because of her planned stop in Syria.

"Pelosi is conveying that Israel is willing to talk if they (Syria) would openly take steps to stop supporting terrorism," Olmert spokeswoman Miri Eisin said. "But at this point the Syrian government, by openly backing terror all around the Middle East, is not a partner for negotiations."

But this is, of course, no change in the Israeli position.

After Pelosi's news conference, Olmert's office felt strongly enough to issue what the Jerusalem Post characterized as a "rare clarification". It read, in part

Olmert, the statement clarified, told Pelosi that Syria's sincerity about a genuine peace with Israel would be judged by its willingness to "cease its support of terror, cease its sponsoring of the Hamas and Islamic Jihad organizations, refrain from providing weapons to Hizbullah and bringing about the destabilizing of Lebanon, cease its support of terror in Iraq, and relinquish the strategic ties it is building with the extremist regime in Iran."

The statement said Olmert had not communicated to Pelosi any change in Israeli policy on Damascus.

Pelosi, who met in Damascus with Syrian President Bashar Assad over the objections of US President George W. Bush, said she brought a message to Assad from Olmert saying that Israel was ready for peace talks.

"We were very pleased with the reassurances we received from the president [Assad] that he was ready to resume the peace process. He was ready to engage in negotiations for peace with Israel," Pelosi said after meeting Assad.
[emphasis added]

The impression this leaves with me is that Pelosi used language with Assad that suggested some change in the Israeli position that simply was not there. Whether intentional or not, only the participants know.
 
Unlike Republican lawmakers (even "key" ones) trolling around the world telling world leaders and politicans not to "listen to Clinton" when he was in office?

Never ****ing happened buddy you're making stuff up.

Or the fact that totaly blows over everyone, that republican lawmakers were on the trip, and others are going at a later date and yes they are going to meet Asad also... talk about partisan spin.

One Republican who happens to be a RINO

As for this latest revelation... anyone provide a link where she personally is quoted in saying Israel had "changed policy" or anything remotely similar? I cant find anything.. best I can find is "she took a message to Damascus", which can mean anything.

She took a message to Damascus saying that Israel wanted further talks forcing the Israeli PM to state that they never said any such thing.
 
Never ****ing happened buddy you're making stuff up.

Am I?

Hastert Finally Got it Right

Interesting article.

or

War in Colombia - Volume III

Look at document 52..

One example of this was a congressional delegation led by Rep. Dennis Hastert (R-IL) which met with Colombian military officials, promising to “remove conditions on assistance” and complaining about “leftist-dominated” U.S. congresses of years past that “used human rights as an excuse to aid the left in other countries.” Hastert said he would to correct this situation and expedite aid to countries allied in the war on drugs and also encouraged Colombian military officials to “bypass the U.S. executive branch and communicate directly with Congress.”

Ups...

One Republican who happens to be a RINO

Lets see

U.S. Congressman Darrell Issa meets Syrian president in Damascus - International Herald Tribune

Okay this guy was not with Pelosi cause that was a guy named Hobson.. how many other republicans are visiting Syria these days?


She took a message to Damascus saying that Israel wanted further talks forcing the Israeli PM to state that they never said any such thing.

Are you sure?

PMO denies peace message to Assad | Jerusalem Post

says something else... debated below.

http://www.debatepolitics.com/breaking-news/19478-pmo-denies-peace-message-assad.html
 
Am I?

Hastert Finally Got it Right

Interesting article.

or

War in Colombia - Volume III

Look at document 52..

lmfao they were meeting in concordance with Clinton's foreign policy as is demonstrated by the fact that Clinton visited along with them in 2000.

Lets see

U.S. Congressman Darrell Issa meets Syrian president in Damascus - International Herald Tribune

Okay this guy was not with Pelosi cause that was a guy named Hobson.. how many other republicans are visiting Syria these days?

A) He is another RINO.

B) He is not the speaker of the house.

C) What he did is just as bad as what Pelosi did.


Are you sure?

PMO denies peace message to Assad | Jerusalem Post

says something else... debated below.

Ya umm the title of that link proves my point pal.
 
lmfao they were meeting in concordance with Clinton's foreign policy as is demonstrated by the fact that Clinton visited along with them in 2000.

And as usual you totaly ignore the point. Right wingers have accused Pelosi among other things for attempting to "sabotage" US foreign policy by sending 2 messages bla bla. and here we have republicans doing exactly the same thing back in the 1990s. In fact we have republicans directly saying "dont listen to the Clinton administration", where as Pelosi has not said "dont listen to the Bush administration" on this issue.

A) He is another RINO.

B) He is not the speaker of the house.

C) What he did is just as bad as what Pelosi did.

He is a Republican. He is not getting any "flack" from the White House or any leading republicans as far as I can tell. And the minority leader refuses to be crtiical of the republicans in Pelosi's group.....

Ya umm the title of that link proves my point pal.

Well if you bothered to read my post in that thread, you would know that the link in fact totaly disproves your point.. unless the Jeruselam Post is some sort of liberal anti Isreal newspaper.
 
And as usual you totaly ignore the point. Right wingers have accused Pelosi among other things for attempting to "sabotage" US foreign policy by sending 2 messages bla bla. and here we have republicans doing exactly the same thing back in the 1990s. In fact we have republicans directly saying "dont listen to the Clinton administration", where as Pelosi has not said "dont listen to the Bush administration" on this issue.

Again Hastert was working in concordance with Clinton's foreign policy, he was not the Speaker of the House, and Columbia is not a state sponsor of terrorism.

He is a Republican. He is not getting any "flack" from the White House or any leading republicans as far as I can tell.

Apparently you didn't read your own article.

Well if you bothered to read my post in that thread, you would know that the link in fact totaly disproves your point.. unless the Jeruselam Post is some sort of liberal anti Isreal newspaper.

WTF are you talking about? The PM disavowed Pelosi's statements to the Syrians.
 
Pelosi is a disgrace...She gives aid and comfort to the enemy.

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3385140,00.html
Terrorists endorse Pelosi's 'good policy of dialogue'


Palestinian terror group members call US House speaker's visit to Damascus 'brave' and hope for talks with Iran; ‘I think the Democratic Party can do things the best,’ Islamic Jihad member says
 
Again Hastert was working in concordance with Clinton's foreign policy, he was not the Speaker of the House, and Columbia is not a state sponsor of terrorism.

If he was working in concordance with with Clintons policy, then why was he going around saying not to listen to Clintons policies and goverment?

Apparently you didn't read your own article.

So where are the pages of condemnation by the White House and other republicans on the republicans going to Syria with Pelosi and on their own?

In a meeting yesterday with Dispatch editors and reporters, Boehner declined to criticize Hobson for joining Pelosi, saying her stature gave the visit an imprimatur it didn't deserve.

Boehner, Hobson clash on Pelosi trip

So one of the most powerfull Republican congressmen declines to crticize one his own doing exactly the same as a democrat. But let me guess, its because she is the Speaker of the House, something that really only matters in the US.

WTF are you talking about? The PM disavowed Pelosi's statements to the Syrians.

Did he? lets look at it again since you are avoiding the other thread.

From basicly the "horses mouth" I would say..unless you count the Jerusalem Post as a liberal anti Isreal rag.

PMO denies peace message to Assad | Jerusalem Post

The Prime Minister's Office issued a rare "clarification" Wednesday that, in gentle diplomatic terms, contradicted US Speaker of the House Nancy Pelosi's statement in Damascus that she had brought a message from Israel about a willingness to engage in peace talks.

First this "clarification"...sounds more like a botched hatchet job ordered by Bush on a political enemy. Then again the Isrealies might think its good to "beef up" their connection with Bush by hitting out at his domestic political enemies. But lets look at this "clarification"

According to the statement, Prime Minister Ehud Olmert emphasized in his meeting with Pelosi on Sunday that "although Israel is interested in peace with Syria, that country continues to be part of the Axis of Evil and a force that encourages terror in the entire Middle East."

So he emphasized at his meeting with Pelosi what we all know . But was there a message?

Olmert, the statement clarified, told Pelosi that Syria's sincerity about a genuine peace with Israel would be judged by its willingness to "cease its support of terror, cease its sponsoring of the Hamas and Islamic Jihad organizations, refrain from providing weapons to Hizbullah and bringing about the destabilizing of Lebanon, cease its support of terror in Iraq, and relinquish the strategic ties it is building with the extremist regime in Iran."

So the usual foot draging by Isreal with preconditions and so on. Nothing new there, but at least Isreal is willing to discuss peace. Was there a message though from Olmert to Assad via Pelosi. Or at worst could Pelosi have been lead to belive that Olmert wanted to send a "message" to Assad?

Pelosi, who met in Damascus with Syrian President Bashar Assad over the objections of US President George W. Bush, said she brought a message to Assad from Olmert saying that Israel was ready for peace talks.

Pelosi claims there was. Okay so far so good. And there is nothing wrong in what she said. Isreal is willing to discuss peace, as long as the long list of precondition are met. Nothing new there. Now Assad knows it for sure.

"We were very pleased with the reassurances we received from the president [Assad] that he was ready to resume the peace process. He was ready to engage in negotiations for peace with Israel," Pelosi said after meeting Assad.

So Syria is also willing to negotiate.. cool. But of course they have their own precondidtions so we basicly at a stalemate, but at least there is a "willingness". Still nothing wrong there on Pelosi's part.

She said the meeting with the Syrian leader "enabled us to communicate a message from Prime Minister Olmert that Israel was ready to engage in peace talks as well."

So was there a message?

According to officials in the Prime Minister's Office, however, this was not what transpired during her meeting with Olmert.

The officials said Olmert had told Pelosi that he thought her trip to Damascus was a mistake, and that when she asked - nevertheless - whether he had a message for Assad, Olmert said Syria should first stop supporting terrorism and "act like a normal country," and only then would Israel be willing to hold discussions.

Seems there might have been a message, its a bit unclear.. so lets for the sake of argument say there was no message and only the usual preconditions were talked about... and that they are not willing to discuss peace? I see some conflicting information here. On one hand Pelosi said to Assad, that Isreal was willing to discuss peace (which is true), but then Olmerts office say that is not true, but then again flip flop and say it is?

The first part of that message, the officials said, was lost in what was reported from Damascus on Wednesday.

Now wait a minute. First part of that message.. must mean there WAS a message. Can the Isrealies make up their minds? And was it "lost" in the reporting, or was it just not emphazied well enough via the media?

Pelosi said the congressional delegation she led raised the issue of kidnapped IDF soldiers Gilad Schalit, Ehud Goldwasser and Eldad Regev and conveyed "the importance of Syria's role in promoting peace between the Palestinians and the Israelis." She also said she had pressed Assad on Syrian support for Hamas and Hizbullah.

But wait, the "first part of the message" was this basicly. She did press Assad on his support for "terror". So whats the problem?
 
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