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Thread: Mitch Daniels Not Only Took ObamaCare Funds, He Pushed Similar Reforms

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    Educator Sgt Meowenstein's Avatar
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    Re: Mitch Daniels Not Only Took ObamaCare Funds, He Pushed Similar Reforms

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    The world you are looking for is in Europe not this country where freedom of choice comes in the form of elected individuals. You either sell your state on the healthcare issue or take personal responsibility for your inability to have insurance. There are programs available to you and everyone has access to healthcare. The Founders put into the Preamble to the Constitution PROMOTE the General Welfare and politicians created article 1 Section 8 which says provide which to me means creating an atmosphere that encourages the private sector to get involved.

    Right, all state politicians want to get re-elected by killing off their uninsured. What a great campaign platform. Where does your responsibility lie on personal issues? If you cannot sell your program to your local or state govt. whose fault is that>?
    And since Obama was elected by a majority of Americans on a platform that included national health care reform, I'd say the voters got what they asked for.


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    Re: Mitch Daniels Not Only Took ObamaCare Funds, He Pushed Similar Reforms

    Quote Originally Posted by Sgt Meowenstein View Post
    Yeah, it's pretty easy if you have the means. If you're poor, living check to check, and can't find adequate employment in another state, or afford the cost of relocating assuming you can find adequate employment, then you're **** out of luck.

    This argument is absurd. You're saying that state's have the right to let people die in the street, and if the people don't like it, tough luck - move to another state.

    If you think that your version is even remotely close to what the founding fathers had in mind for the citizens for this nation, you are sadly mistaken.
    It isn't the state's or the fed's responsibility to provide healthcare or income for anybody. That responsibility lies solely on the shoulders of the individual. Do I like the idea of people dying because they can't afford healthcare? No. Is it their fault? Yeah, partially. I have worked jobs that did not provide insurance benefits. I didn't like not having insurance, so I got a better job. I've had insurance almost constantly since I was 19. The only lapses I've had were during transitions into new jobs. At 19, I had little experience and few marketable skills, but I still managed to find a job that provided health benefits (as well as vacation and sick time). It isn't impossible, and people must take responsibility for themselves. Would I rather have that $70-150 a month in premiums to spend on other stuff? Yeah. Is the lack of spending money worth it? Absolutely.
    "Hmmm...Can't decide if I want to watch "Four Houses" or give myself an Icy Hot pee hole enema..." - Blake Shelton


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    Educator Sgt Meowenstein's Avatar
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    Re: Mitch Daniels Not Only Took ObamaCare Funds, He Pushed Similar Reforms

    Quote Originally Posted by tessaesque View Post
    It isn't the state's or the fed's responsibility to provide healthcare or income for anybody. That responsibility lies solely on the shoulders of the individual. Do I like the idea of people dying because they can't afford healthcare? No. Is it their fault? Yeah, partially. I have worked jobs that did not provide insurance benefits. I didn't like not having insurance, so I got a better job. I've had insurance almost constantly since I was 19. The only lapses I've had were during transitions into new jobs. At 19, I had little experience and few marketable skills, but I still managed to find a job that provided health benefits (as well as vacation and sick time). It isn't impossible, and people must take responsibility for themselves. Would I rather have that $70-150 a month in premiums to spend on other stuff? Yeah. Is the lack of spending money worth it? Absolutely.
    I'm sorry, your argument is absurd. If you think that's what the founding fathers intended or that most Americans agree with you, you're delusional.


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    Re: Mitch Daniels Not Only Took ObamaCare Funds, He Pushed Similar Reforms

    Quote Originally Posted by Sgt Meowenstein View Post
    I'm sorry, your argument is absurd. If you think that's what the founding fathers intended or that most Americans agree with you, you're delusional.
    The founding fathers did not intend for those who choose not to provide for themselves to be rewarded for it. The vast majority of Americans are more than capable of taking care of themselves, and the vast majority of those who aren't damn well could be. I'm not going to justify spending more non-existent money because people refuse to work their asses off to get something they "need". If you need it, find a way to get it. Stop waiting for big government to step in and give it you.
    "Hmmm...Can't decide if I want to watch "Four Houses" or give myself an Icy Hot pee hole enema..." - Blake Shelton


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    Re: Mitch Daniels Not Only Took ObamaCare Funds, He Pushed Similar Reforms

    Quote Originally Posted by tessaesque View Post
    The founding fathers did not intend for those who choose not to provide for themselves to be rewarded for it. The vast majority of Americans are more than capable of taking care of themselves, and the vast majority of those who aren't damn well could be. I'm not going to justify spending more non-existent money because people refuse to work their asses off to get something they "need". If you need it, find a way to get it. Stop waiting for big government to step in and give it you.
    I'm just going to repeat this:

    My problem with this is:

    A) WE do promote the general welfare in healthcare and we do it by making ERs take in pretty much any one who comes to see them if they are in a life-threatening state (and that can be defined pretty loosely). But seriously, a bad cough could be pneumonia and left untreated, the person could die, so they will be seen.

    B) In providing for the general welfare in this fashion, we are wasting not just tax-payer dollars but premium dollars hand over fist.

    Thus, the way I look at it - you have three choices: you can 1) let people die or continue getting sicker until they do; 2) continue this highly inefficient form of "socialized medicine"; or 3) come up with a way of doing it that is much more efficient and inexpensive for tax-payers and premium-payers.

    Those are the options: 1) live like the developing world; 2) maintain the status quo; 3) develop something that is either our own solution or develop something based on what all the rest of the developed nations of the world do.

    You're paying for it already. Just in an really inefficient manner.

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    Educator Sgt Meowenstein's Avatar
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    Re: Mitch Daniels Not Only Took ObamaCare Funds, He Pushed Similar Reforms

    Quote Originally Posted by tessaesque View Post
    The founding fathers did not intend for those who choose not to provide for themselves to be rewarded for it. The vast majority of Americans are more than capable of taking care of themselves, and the vast majority of those who aren't damn well could be. I'm not going to justify spending more non-existent money because people refuse to work their asses off to get something they "need". If you need it, find a way to get it. Stop waiting for big government to step in and give it you.
    Republicans, the party of higher morals and family values, basically telling poor people that they'll sooner watch them die in the street than lend a helping hand. Gotta love those compassionate conservative values. You people are hopeless.


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    Re: Mitch Daniels Not Only Took ObamaCare Funds, He Pushed Similar Reforms

    Good! His support of universal healthcare only solidifies my intention to vote for him if he runs.
    (avatar by Thomas Nast)

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    Educator Sgt Meowenstein's Avatar
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    Re: Mitch Daniels Not Only Took ObamaCare Funds, He Pushed Similar Reforms

    Quote Originally Posted by Krhazy View Post
    Good! His support of universal healthcare only solidifies my intention to vote for him if he runs.
    So his hypocrisy on health care ensures your vote for him? How about his position on Planned Parenthood? Does his willingness to take away health care services for poor women ensure your vote for him?


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    Re: Mitch Daniels Not Only Took ObamaCare Funds, He Pushed Similar Reforms

    Quote Originally Posted by Sgt Meowenstein View Post
    Republicans, the party of higher morals and family values, basically telling poor people that they'll sooner watch them die in the street than lend a helping hand. Gotta love those compassionate conservative values. You people are hopeless.
    I can be compassionate without enabling people to stagnate. If you are capable then you need to earn your way. That's the way this country and life work. Excuses breed nothing but stagnation.
    "Hmmm...Can't decide if I want to watch "Four Houses" or give myself an Icy Hot pee hole enema..." - Blake Shelton


  10. #50
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    Re: Mitch Daniels Not Only Took ObamaCare Funds, He Pushed Similar Reforms

    Quote Originally Posted by Sgt Meowenstein View Post
    And since Obama was elected by a majority of Americans on a platform that included national health care reform, I'd say the voters got what they asked for.
    Guess you missed the November 2010 election results and the 26 states that are now suing Obama. Not surprising but tell me where did you learn that it was someone else's responsibility to pay for your healthcare? Are they to monitor your lifestyle as well including what you eat and drink? Where does the nanny state end in your world?

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