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Thread: Mitch Daniels Not Only Took ObamaCare Funds, He Pushed Similar Reforms

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    Re: Mitch Daniels Not Only Took ObamaCare Funds, He Pushed Similar Reforms

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    Nothing, but the expansion of the program by the Federal Govt. has to be funded by the Federal Govt.

    Soooooo where's your beef?

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    Re: Mitch Daniels Not Only Took ObamaCare Funds, He Pushed Similar Reforms

    from cpwill

    it is sort of entertaining how democrats are now admitting that the President's healthcare plan is a poison-kiss, and attempting to tie it to the candidates that they see as a threat.
    cp - I think you are wise enough and astute enough to fully understand that this tieing of Daniels to the healthcare plan is only a poison kiss to the right wing constituency which has disproportional influence in the GOP primary process.

    They do NOT see it as a poison kiss to the nation as a whole or the November electorate.

    And I suspect you understand that also.

    Every incumbent would love to pick their opponent. Were I in the White House or on the upper levels of the Democratic political team, I would be doing everything possible to make sure that my opponent in 2012 was either Palin, Paul, or Bachmann. Any of those three would give you a repeat of the Democratic results in 1964. Others might have just as bad of luck and results. But those three are sure bets with sure results.
    Last edited by haymarket; 05-19-11 at 05:24 PM.
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    Re: Mitch Daniels Not Only Took ObamaCare Funds, He Pushed Similar Reforms

    Quote Originally Posted by Sgt Meowenstein View Post
    How is it wrong for the POTUS to ensure that most Americans have health insurance? That's the kind of things presidents are elected to do. It was THE major issue of his campaign. Health insurance, or the lack thereof is a big problem in the USA. IF governors are unable, or unwilling to take care of the uninsured in their state, then the federal gov't should step in. Again, if these Republican governors have such great ideas about health care reform, then they can implement them as long as they achieve the same goals as Obama's. You can keep moving the goal post, but the state's rights argument is out the window.
    because its unconstitutional and I should not have to work hundreds of hours a year to pay for your health care-especially if you impose costs on the system by the irresponsible behavior that so many of the poor engage in



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    Re: Mitch Daniels Not Only Took ObamaCare Funds, He Pushed Similar Reforms

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    because its unconstitutional and I should not have to work hundreds of hours a year to pay for your health care-especially if you impose costs on the system by the irresponsible behavior that so many of the poor engage in

    You do that anyways even with private insurance.

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    Re: Mitch Daniels Not Only Took ObamaCare Funds, He Pushed Similar Reforms

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    Until 2003, when he left to go run for governor.

    It is sort of entertaining how democrats are now admitting that the President's healthcare plan is a poison-kiss,...
    You mischaracterize the Democrat's position as to why we're laughing at some of the GOP 2012 presidential hopefuls. This thread sums it up (topic: http://www.debatepolitics.com/health...e-against.html

    ...and attempting to tie it to the candidates that they see as a threat.
    Isn't that the nature of politics during an election cycle? To expose the weaknesses or hyporcrytical nature of the potential candidate?

    Obama has made a point of saying specifically how wonderful he thinks Romneycare is on... how many occasions since Romney took in $10 million?
    I fail to see what you're getting at here. Okay...so Mitt Romney has taken in over $10M in campaign contributions. What's that go to do with the health care reforms he enacted while Gov. of Massachusettes?

    Having spent 3 years blaming them for his inability to spark an economic recovery, it seems that Obama has decided to blame Republicans for Obamacare, too
    WRONG! If anything, he's calling three GOP hopefuls out for claiming to be against ObamaCare while having made claims to support the individual mandate in the past (or a form of it presently; Re: Newt Gingrinch...they were for it before they were against it...see link above.)

    However, before we get into the words (and I have more than a few questions about those), let's look at deeds. what did Mitch Daniels actually do to reform healthcare in his state?

    Oh, well would you look at that.
    Oh...wait to toot your own horn, Mr. Daniels.
    Last edited by Objective Voice; 05-19-11 at 05:38 PM.

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    Re: Mitch Daniels Not Only Took ObamaCare Funds, He Pushed Similar Reforms

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    Healthcare is a personal responsibility, not a Presidential responsibility. Presidents aren't elected to be a parent, they are elected to be a leader in national security and to promote economic growth. If governors are unable or unwilling to do anything then it is up to the people of the state to make the change and implement their will. Our Founders understood where the power belongs and it isn't a massive Federal Govt. What does the President know about the healthcare problems in your community? It is you that pays for state and local healthcare costs, not the Federal taxpayer which will happen with Obamacare and that is totally and completely wrong.

    You still don't get it, Obama has given the states two choices, create your own health care program or accept mine. State governments have said NO there is a third option, let we aren't implementing a program and aren't accepting yours. This is a states rights' issue and you want want the Federal Govt. to be a parent and force you to do what they want you to do.
    And how are individuals going to implement their will against a state government that's unwilling to provide affordable health care? The founding fathers also understood that the gov't should provide for the general welfare of its citizens. That's why they put it in the Constitution. And no, I'm not saying that the right to health care insurance is in the Constitution. But one could easily make the argument that affordable health care is part of providing for the general welfare of citizens.

    Essentially, your argument is that states have the right to either ensure that their citizens have access to affordable health care or just to let them die fending for themselves. I wholeheartedly disagree and think that your interpretation is a perversion of what the founding fathers intended for this nation. State and federal gov'ts have a constitutional obligation to provide for the general welfare of their citizens.
    Last edited by Sgt Meowenstein; 05-19-11 at 05:46 PM.


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    Re: Mitch Daniels Not Only Took ObamaCare Funds, He Pushed Similar Reforms

    Quote Originally Posted by Sgt Meowenstein View Post
    And how are individuals going to implement their will against a state government that's unwilling to provide affordable health care? The founding fathers also understood that the gov't should provide for the general welfare of its citizens. That's why they put it in the Constitution. And no, I'm not saying that the right to health care insurance is in the Constitution. But one could easily make the argument that affordable health care is part of providing for the general welfare of citizens.

    Essentially, your argument is that state's have the right to either ensure that their citizens have access to affordable health care or just to let them die fend for themselves. I wholeheartedly disagree and think that your interpretation is a perversion of what the founding fathers intended for this nation. State and federal gov'ts have a constitutional obligation to provide for the general welfare of its citizens.
    The world you are looking for is in Europe not this country where freedom of choice comes in the form of elected individuals. You either sell your state on the healthcare issue or take personal responsibility for your inability to have insurance. There are programs available to you and everyone has access to healthcare. The Founders put into the Preamble to the Constitution PROMOTE the General Welfare and politicians created article 1 Section 8 which says provide which to me means creating an atmosphere that encourages the private sector to get involved.

    Right, all state politicians want to get re-elected by killing off their uninsured. What a great campaign platform. Where does your responsibility lie on personal issues? If you cannot sell your program to your local or state govt. whose fault is that>?

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    Re: Mitch Daniels Not Only Took ObamaCare Funds, He Pushed Similar Reforms

    Quote Originally Posted by Sgt Meowenstein View Post
    And how are individuals going to implement their will against a state government that's unwilling to provide affordable health care? The founding fathers also understood that the gov't should provide for the general welfare of its citizens. That's why they put it in the Constitution. And no, I'm not saying that the right to health care insurance is in the Constitution. But one could easily make the argument that affordable health care is part of providing for the general welfare of citizens.

    Essentially, your argument is that state's have the right to either ensure that their citizens have access to affordable health care or just to let them die fend for themselves. I wholeheartedly disagree and think that your interpretation is a perversion of what the founding fathers intended for this nation. State and federal gov'ts have a constitutional obligation to provide for the general welfare of its citizens.
    My problem with this is:

    A) WE do promote the general welfare in healthcare and we do it by making ERs take in pretty much any one who comes to see them if they are in a life-threatening state (and that can be defined pretty loosely). But seriously, a bad cough could be pneumonia and left untreated, the person could die, so they will be seen.

    B) In providing for the general welfare in this fashion, we are wasting not just tax-payer dollars but premium dollars hand over fist.

    Thus, the way I look at it - you have three choices: you can 1) let people die or continue getting sicker until they do; 2) continue this highly inefficient form of "socialized medicine"; or 3) come up with a way of doing it that is much more efficient and inexpensive for tax-payers and premium-payers.

    Those are the options: 1) live like the developing world; 2) maintain the status quo; 3) develop something that is either our own solution or develop something based on what all the rest of the developed nations of the world do.

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    Re: Mitch Daniels Not Only Took ObamaCare Funds, He Pushed Similar Reforms

    Quote Originally Posted by Sgt Meowenstein View Post
    And how are individuals going to implement their will against a state government that's unwilling to provide affordable health care? The founding fathers also understood that the gov't should provide for the general welfare of its citizens. That's why they put it in the Constitution. And no, I'm not saying that the right to health care insurance is in the Constitution. But one could easily make the argument that affordable health care is part of providing for the general welfare of citizens.

    Essentially, your argument is that states have the right to either ensure that their citizens have access to affordable health care or just to let them die fending for themselves. I wholeheartedly disagree and think that your interpretation is a perversion of what the founding fathers intended for this nation. State and federal gov'ts have a constitutional obligation to provide for the general welfare of their citizens.
    If your state doesn't provide the coverage you want it's pretty easy to move to one that does. It's a bit harder to move to another country.
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    Re: Mitch Daniels Not Only Took ObamaCare Funds, He Pushed Similar Reforms

    Quote Originally Posted by tessaesque View Post
    If your state doesn't provide the coverage you want it's pretty easy to move to one that does. It's a bit harder to move to another country.
    Yeah, it's pretty easy if you have the means. If you're poor, living check to check, and can't find adequate employment in another state, or afford the cost of relocating assuming you can find adequate employment, then you're **** out of luck.

    This argument is absurd. You're saying that state's have the right to let people die in the street, and if the people don't like it, tough luck - move to another state.

    If you think that your version is even remotely close to what the founding fathers had in mind for the citizens for this nation, you are sadly mistaken.


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