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Thread: Tenn. Tea Party Wants Slavery Removed From Textbooks?

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    Re: Tenn. Tea Party Wants Slavery Removed From Textbooks?

    Quote Originally Posted by hazlnut View Post
    NAME ONE...

    Stop ignoring the question...

    It won't go away...

    Name one. Name a Black signer/contributor to a founding document.
    I think the argument that there are black founders just floundered.
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    Re: Tenn. Tea Party Wants Slavery Removed From Textbooks?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post
    I think the argument that there are black founders just floundered.
    Along with the attempted rationalization to separate founding fathers from racism.

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    Re: Tenn. Tea Party Wants Slavery Removed From Textbooks?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post
    I think the argument that there are black founders just floundered.
    No, it didn't.

    I find it very interesting that some people are refusing to give black people who helped found this country any credit. It's almost as though you think they were all puppets and just "helped" because they had to. It's almost as though you think all black people hated white people back then and vice versa. It's almost as though you think all the white founders were racist. Weird....

    A partner conversation to this could be the "Civil Rights Era" which didn't start in the 1960s, but most people think it did.


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    Re: Tenn. Tea Party Wants Slavery Removed From Textbooks?

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    That's a completely different issue and nothing to do with the why the words all men are created equal were included.
    I also want to add you may be having troubles with others concerning the black founding fathers because some see founding fathers as meaning those who wrote the documents and set the ground work for a new country. Being combatants was indeed helpful, but not what everyone would consider a founding father. I don't in any way mean to diminish anyone's contrabution, but blacks here were not equal partners, and certianly not considered equal by and large. And it certainly wasn't what was meant by the statement all men are created equal.

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    Re: Tenn. Tea Party Wants Slavery Removed From Textbooks?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mellie View Post
    No, it didn't.

    I find it very interesting that some people are refusing to give black people who helped found this country any credit. It's almost as though you think they were all puppets and just "helped" because they had to. It's almost as though you think all black people hated white people back then and vice versa. It's almost as though you think all the white founders were racist. Weird....

    A partner conversation to this could be the "Civil Rights Era" which didn't start in the 1960s, but most people think it did.
    I don't think all the white founders were racists.

    I think all the founders were white.

    Can you name one founder who was not white?
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    Re: Tenn. Tea Party Wants Slavery Removed From Textbooks?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mellie View Post
    No, it didn't.

    I find it very interesting that some people are refusing to give black people who helped found this country any credit. It's almost as though you think they were all puppets and just "helped" because they had to. It's almost as though you think all black people hated white people back then and vice versa. It's almost as though you think all the white founders were racist. Weird....

    A partner conversation to this could be the "Civil Rights Era" which didn't start in the 1960s, but most people think it did.
    Black people may have fought in the war of independence however that doesn't make them founders and if it does, their contemporaries certainly did not see it that way. 55 white representatives from the 13 colonies issued a constitution that took race as a qualification for citizenship. To know this and assert that blacks 'founded' this country in any capacity is simply dishonest.
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    Re: Tenn. Tea Party Wants Slavery Removed From Textbooks?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    Black people may have fought in the war of independence however that doesn't make them founders and if it does, their contemporaries certainly did not see it that way. 55 white representatives from the 13 colonies issued a constitution that took race as a qualification for citizenship. To know this and assert that blacks 'founded' this country in any capacity is simply dishonest.
    she said HELPED founded, you are purposely misquoting her by leaving out that word...surprising that a liberal can be so dishonest....
    There were educated and free blacks at the time that were for the revolution. Just because 55 liberal white guys from 13 colonies did not invite them to the party doesn't mean they didn't support the cause.
    The 55 who did attend would not have met if they thought the rest of the country was against them....they had many supporters.
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    Re: Tenn. Tea Party Wants Slavery Removed From Textbooks?

    Quote Originally Posted by UtahBill View Post
    she said HELPED founded,
    And again, that is simply wrong. Blacks did not found this country or help found it. Those who drafted the constitutional document upon which the laws of the country are based founded it. Sorry that a simple concept of political science escapes two of our supposed "teachers". No wonder Republicans are so opposed to their unions. Teachers seem to consistently demonstrate an inability to understand what is not written in a cheap textbook.

    Did blacks help in expanding the ruling regime's territory? Sure. Did they help in creating new legislation for that territory? Sure. Were some of them present during the time the country was founded? Yes. Did they play a role in the country's foundation? No, they did not. The fact that Mellie provided slaves as proof that there are black founding fathers is simply more right wing revisionism of history. Slaves do not play a role in the foundation of any nation. Why? A little word called "citizenship". We'll explore it bellow.

    you are purposely misquoting her by leaving out that word...surprising that a liberal can be so dishonest....
    There were educated and free blacks at the time that were for the revolution. Just because 55 liberal white guys from 13 colonies did not invite them to the party doesn't mean they didn't support the cause.
    The 55 who did attend would not have met if they thought the rest of the country was against them....they had many supporters.
    She's dishonest for the simple fact that citizenship and active representation in the political system are the bare minimum of requisites for being considered a founder. As blacks, and I mean all blacks, had neither of these for nearly 70 years after the country was founded. It's impossible that they took a role in the foundation of anything. Why don't you try picking up a book on the basics of what it means to be a founder? Women didn't play a role in the foundation of this country either. How could they? They held none of the basic privileges which most citizens today take for granted. Neither did the French. Neither did Native Americans. It was 55 white guys who drafted a constitution establishing political and military supremacy over a given territory. Those 55 white guys granted themselves Founder status by the mere fact that they created the basic political operating framework for the country. If you don't want to accept this then that's up to you. World history disagrees with you. .

    By the way. If you do not believe me - you can look at the most basic piece of evidence validating my argument:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fourtee...s_Constitution

    If some blacks were founders in any capacity, why did they need an amendment to guarantee them the same rights and privileges as the rest of the citizens and founders of this country? They must have been considered "3/5ths of a Founder".
    Last edited by Hatuey; 05-29-11 at 03:40 AM.
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    Re: Tenn. Tea Party Wants Slavery Removed From Textbooks?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    And again, that is simply wrong. Blacks did not found this country or help found it. Those who drafted the constitutional document upon which the laws of the country are based founded it. Sorry that a simple concept of political science escapes two of our supposed "teachers". No wonder Republicans are so opposed to their unions. Teachers seem to consistently demonstrate an inability to understand what is not written in a cheap textbook.

    Did blacks help in expanding the ruling regime's territory? Sure. Did they help in creating new legislation for that territory? Sure. Were some of them present during the time the country was founded? Yes. Did they play a role in the country's foundation? No, they did not. The fact that Mellie provided slaves as proof that there are black founding fathers is simply more right wing revisionism of history. Slaves do not play a role in the foundation of any nation. Why? A little word called "citizenship". We'll explore it bellow.



    She's dishonest for the simple fact that citizenship and active representation in the political system are the bare minimum of requisites for being considered a founder. As blacks, and I mean all blacks, had neither of these for nearly 70 years after the country was founded. It's impossible that they took a role in the foundation of anything. Why don't you try picking up a book on the basics of what it means to be a founder? Women didn't play a role in the foundation of this country either. How could they? They held none of the basic privileges which most citizens today take for granted. Neither did the French. Neither did Native Americans. It was 55 white guys who drafted a constitution establishing political and military supremacy over a given territory. Those 55 white guys granted themselves Founder status by the mere fact that they created the basic political operating framework for the country. If you don't want to accept this then that's up to you. World history disagrees with you. .

    By the way. If you do not believe me - you can look at the most basic piece of evidence validating my argument:

    Fourteenth Amendment to the United States Constitution - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    If some blacks were founders in any capacity, why did they need an amendment to guarantee them the same rights and privileges as the rest of the citizens and founders of this country? They must have been considered "3/5ths of a Founder".
    So 55 white men wrote the documents and fought the wars, and financially supported the troops? I suppose the great minds of the Age of Reason had no input either? You know, the ones whose writings heavily influenced the FF? None of their wives supported their cause? To suppose that 55 white guys are the sole reason the USA exists today as a free country is bigotry and ignorance.
    That kind of "reasoning" abounds amongst today's political leaders.

    Go ahead, EXCLUDE the less than noteworthy efforts of the common man, and woman.

    BTW, there was no "citizenship" at the time as there was no country....just an idea in the hearts and minds of ALL who opposed the King...
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    Re: Tenn. Tea Party Wants Slavery Removed From Textbooks?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mellie View Post
    I'm sorry, but it sounds to me like the tea party wants the whole truth told. They're tired of kids being taught that the Founders were nothing but a bunch of racists. I was taught that the 3/5 Compromise was put in the Constitution because white people didn't think blacks were fully human. Do you understand how twisted that is to teach a child that? It's twisting history for an agenda.
    Actually, no. The proposed law would not let textbooks say anything that puts the Founding Fathers in any sort of negative light. Inasmuch as slavery is negative, and some of the founders owned slaves, it's impossible to tell the whole truth while following this bill..

    You were misinformed about the 3/5 compromise. That was put into place because the southern states wanted slaves to count as far as apportioning the House of Representatives, because counting the slaves would give them more representation than the north. Of course, they still weren't allowed to vote. The compromise was put in place to stop this blatant power grab by the south that would give slave owners more power.

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