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Thread: Tenn. Tea Party Wants Slavery Removed From Textbooks?

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    Re: Tenn. Tea Party Wants Slavery Removed From Textbooks?

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    I said the same thing about ANYONE that wnats to deny hyistory as I said about the Koreans...teach EVERYTHING! Make sure the youth are taught not only that the Founding Fathers inherited and for a time continued the tradition of slavery but make sure they understand it was the way of the whole world...and yes...even in your little slice of heaven. I dont think they should selectively teach it ANYWHERE and I challenge you to find even a hint of that on anything I posted.

    Im sorry you are ashamed at your history. I will tell you plainly that I am not.
    How should anyone feel about slavery? I'm not sure how to read what you write here, but the fact is it wasn't just an acceptance of the way the world was, but some actually believed in the way it was. We can work our way through each person, but the point is if it wasn't accepted, even believed in, would we have continued?

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Tenn. Tea Party Wants Slavery Removed From Textbooks?

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    How should anyone feel about slavery? I'm not sure how to read what you write here, but the fact is it wasn't just an acceptance of the way the world was, but some actually believed in the way it was. We can work our way through each person, but the point is if it wasn't accepted, even believed in, would we have continued?
    The history of the world shows pretty clearly that slavery as an institution was on its way out in civilized countries. England abandoned slavery at about the same time the US did. The US banned the importation of slaves about 50 years before slavery itself was banned. Many of the northern colonies banned slavery before they became states. It is my belief that the civil war was not fought over slavery...slavery was the convenient rallying cry. I also believe that slavery would have run it's course ion short order and we would have had far less racial strife over the last 100 years had it done so.

    Im sure thinking people feel repulsed about the thought of and practice of slavery. People that feel ashamed about history that they palyed no part in are in my opinion hystrionic fools.

    Perhaps if the worlds true history on slavery including the fact that it is still practiced today were taught, people might have a greater understanding of the truth. I wonder how much further along race relations would have been if people understood history vs hysteria.

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    Re: Tenn. Tea Party Wants Slavery Removed From Textbooks?

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    The history of the world shows pretty clearly that slavery as an institution was on its way out in civilized countries. England abandoned slavery at about the same time the US did. The US banned the importation of slaves about 50 years before slavery itself was banned. Many of the northern colonies banned slavery before they became states. It is my belief that the civil war was not fought over slavery...slavery was the convenient rallying cry. I also believe that slavery would have run it's course ion short order and we would have had far less racial strife over the last 100 years had it done so.

    Im sure thinking people feel repulsed about the thought of and practice of slavery. People that feel ashamed about history that they palyed no part in are in my opinion hystrionic fools.

    Perhaps if the worlds true history on slavery including the fact that it is still practiced today were taught, people might have a greater understanding of the truth. I wonder how much further along race relations would have been if people understood history vs hysteria.
    I would not argue the civil war was fought over slavery, but instead how southern states want slaves counted both ways, as slaves, keeping them as slsaves, property, and as people to help with representation. The point is, we sadly were not as opposed to slavery as we should have considering our rethoric concerning freedom.

    As for feelings, we all have to look back on our past, and we're likley to have feelings about it, be it our personal past or our national past. It is merely human nature to have feelings. I've done things I wouldn't change that I feel bad about, even though I learned. I suspect I'm not alone with that type of feeling. This can be true concerning our nation. We've done things as a nation we should not feel proud about. And it is good to have those things see the light of day and to remind ousrselves that we can do bad things. We're human, not perfect, and if we don't pay attention and stay vigilant, we can do wrong in hurry.

    And what you ask be taught is what is taught. However, you seem to be asking that it be taught with a more positive spin, meaning to me that perhaps you can how you feel about it. I could be wrong of course, so I'm not saying I know this is the case for sure. But there really isn't any significant hysteria to any measurable degree.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Tenn. Tea Party Wants Slavery Removed From Textbooks?

    The civil war was fought to preserve the union. The Confederate States seceded and tried to form their own nation. The Northern States fought a war to keep them from doing so. Slavery was a part of it, but the war was not fought to end slavery.

    Slavery may have ended in the US and other fat lands of the world, but it has not ended in every country even today. It still persists in the less "developed" nations. It has also been a part of human history for thousands of years. To simply single out slavery in America and not study slavery as an institution is to misunderstand history.
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    Re: Tenn. Tea Party Wants Slavery Removed From Textbooks?

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    I would not argue the civil war was fought over slavery, but instead how southern states want slaves counted both ways, as slaves, keeping them as slsaves, property, and as people to help with representation. The point is, we sadly were not as opposed to slavery as we should have considering our rethoric concerning freedom.

    As for feelings, we all have to look back on our past, and we're likley to have feelings about it, be it our personal past or our national past. It is merely human nature to have feelings. I've done things I wouldn't change that I feel bad about, even though I learned. I suspect I'm not alone with that type of feeling. This can be true concerning our nation. We've done things as a nation we should not feel proud about. And it is good to have those things see the light of day and to remind ousrselves that we can do bad things. We're human, not perfect, and if we don't pay attention and stay vigilant, we can do wrong in hurry.

    And what you ask be taught is what is taught. However, you seem to be asking that it be taught with a more positive spin, meaning to me that perhaps you can how you feel about it. I could be wrong of course, so I'm not saying I know this is the case for sure. But there really isn't any significant hysteria to any measurable degree.
    We? What...did you have access to some time machine? How many slaves exactly did you own? Or was it your neighbors that owned them that you didnt speak out loudly enough against?

    Look...people all across the world...not just this country were speaking out against slavery and promoting change. The 'peculiar institution' was under attack by society and growth. History proves that to be correct. The total historical perspective of slavery including its origins and where it is being practiced STILL should be taught.

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    Re: Tenn. Tea Party Wants Slavery Removed From Textbooks?

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    We? What...did you have access to some time machine? How many slaves exactly did you own? Or was it your neighbors that owned them that you didnt speak out loudly enough against?

    Look...people all across the world...not just this country were speaking out against slavery and promoting change. The 'peculiar institution' was under attack by society and growth. History proves that to be correct. The total historical perspective of slavery including its origins and where it is being practiced STILL should be taught.
    Which has nothing to do with what we did. We did in fact have slavery. And civil rights is less than 100 years old here. We can't pretend such has not be the case.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Tenn. Tea Party Wants Slavery Removed From Textbooks?

    If we distort history, especially to serve a modern political agenda or to make it more comfortable to view history through our modern ideals, then we can no longer learn from it.

    What can we learn from the history of slavery? We can learn that, as enlightened as we are in the modern age, and as enlightened as the founders of this country were, we still have a long way to go. The racism that still exists today should humble us, and cause us to look inward. We should not shout out how racist we are not, but rather we should take stock of ourselves, admit our shortcomings, and seek to improve. Perfection is impossible, and we will ALWAYS have progress to make, just as our ancestors did.

    If we forget out history, we are doomed to repeat it. Maybe not slavery in the form it took in our past, but certainly the oppression and hatred that fueled it.
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    Re: Tenn. Tea Party Wants Slavery Removed From Textbooks?

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Which has nothing to do with what we did. We did in fact have slavery. And civil rights is less than 100 years old here. We can't pretend such has not be the case.
    We again...so...French then?

    Thats kinda the problem and one of the reasons why we continue to have the racial problems we have. You are ashamed of the history of people 200 years ago. There are people that have throughout our history capitalized on your guilt and on incitng others to rage over a history that 1-they didnt experience, 2-their ancestry (may have) shared with people throughout the world, and 3-ignore the fact that their ancestrs did the same thing and in many cases still are.

    You and yours can just roll in your self loathing for eternity for all the good it will do you. And as long as the continue to teach a slanted and closed version of history you will still have black kids from the suburbs 7 and 8 generations removed from slavery (if their families were ever even involved in it...on either the BEING or the OWNING side) living in upper middle income environments still channeling the spirit of Kunta Kinte.

    Its 2008...errr...I mean 2012...time to grow a little bit.
    Last edited by VanceMack; 06-06-11 at 03:19 PM.

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    Re: Tenn. Tea Party Wants Slavery Removed From Textbooks?

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    We again...so...French then?

    Thats kinda the problem and one of the reasons why we continue to have the racial problems we have. You are ashamed of the history of people 200 years ago. There ar epeople that have throughout our history capitalized on your guilt and on incitng others to rage over a history that 1-they didnt experience, 2-they shared with people throughout the world, and 3-ignore the fact that their ancesotrs did the same thing and in many cases still are.

    You and yours can just roll in your self loathing for eternity for all the good it will do you. And as long as the continue to teach a slanted and closed version of history you will still have black kids from the suburbs 7 and 8 generations removed from slavery (if their families were ever even involved in it...on either the BEING or the OWNING side) living in upper middle income environments still channeling the spirit of Kunta Kinte.

    Its 2008...errr...I mean 2012...time to grow a little bit.
    Our ancestors wrote uor history. We can't ingore it or pretend it didn't happen. My grandfater was a KKK member. I loved the man, but was ashamed of this aspect of his life. I was never such a member, but my care for him led me to have a feeling. What you feel nothing about you can't love.

    However, I think you misunderstand a lot. It isn't that I, or many others I suspect, sit around crying about the past. it is merely when we look back and assess what our ancestors did that we have paused to remember and to some degree critque and feel. But the facts are the facts. The US (as you have some silly problem with the word we) did allow slavery and Americans did own slaves. There is no way around that fact.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Tenn. Tea Party Wants Slavery Removed From Textbooks?

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    I would not argue the civil war was fought over slavery, but instead how southern states want slaves counted both ways, as slaves, keeping them as slsaves, property, and as people to help with representation. The point is, we sadly were not as opposed to slavery as we should have considering our rethoric concerning freedom.

    As for feelings, we all have to look back on our past, and we're likley to have feelings about it, be it our personal past or our national past. It is merely human nature to have feelings. I've done things I wouldn't change that I feel bad about, even though I learned. I suspect I'm not alone with that type of feeling. This can be true concerning our nation. We've done things as a nation we should not feel proud about. And it is good to have those things see the light of day and to remind ousrselves that we can do bad things. We're human, not perfect, and if we don't pay attention and stay vigilant, we can do wrong in hurry.

    And what you ask be taught is what is taught. However, you seem to be asking that it be taught with a more positive spin, meaning to me that perhaps you can how you feel about it. I could be wrong of course, so I'm not saying I know this is the case for sure. But there really isn't any significant hysteria to any measurable degree.
    I think slavery was a very difficult situation, and likely a majority of the founders knew it was wrong; but to discontinue it overnight after being engrained in society and the economy so long, would have brought total ruin. So to cling to your beliefs in their purest sense or not, caused many to appear hypocritical. Virginia being the largest state with the most prestige could not overnight free all slaves and survive economically. So what do you do? Well you first kill off the importing which they did in the Constitution, and you don't count them to hard for taxes. Question was, were we going to have a union or not? Don't forget the North benefitted from slavery too (i.e., cheap raw materials such as cotton). So yeah, they had to be hypocrites for a while, but they did set in motion the process to eventually end it.
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