Page 8 of 26 FirstFirst ... 67891018 ... LastLast
Results 71 to 80 of 252

Thread: Sen. Rand Paul: Right To Health Care Is Like Believing In "Slavery"

  1. #71
    cookies crumble
    ARealConservative's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Last Seen
    04-21-17 @ 09:41 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian
    Posts
    14,518

    Re: Sen. Rand Paul: Right To Health Care Is Like Believing In "Slavery"

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    We've said he was wrong, on nearly all counts.
    and you are wrong on all accounts. thanks for playing though

  2. #72
    Sage
    Harry Guerrilla's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Not affiliated with other libertarians.
    Last Seen
    09-01-17 @ 02:38 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian
    Posts
    28,955

    Re: Sen. Rand Paul: Right To Health Care Is Like Believing In "Slavery"

    Needless to say, both sides are using highly emotive terminology to advance their political positions on medical care.

    His using the slavery example isn't excusable, but neither is the hyperbole coming from those who rant and rave over the supposed problems we have now.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
    —Adam Shepard

  3. #73
    Sage

    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Huntsville, AL (USA)
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 05:51 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Moderate
    Posts
    9,763

    Re: Sen. Rand Paul: Right To Health Care Is Like Believing In "Slavery"

    Quote Originally Posted by Paschendale View Post
    I never understand this perspective. Why would the basic presumption for every person be not to share what they have? We all have differing talents and abilities, and we are strongest when we work together. I do what I can, you do what you can, and we are all better off for it. Ideally, we wouldn't need a government to help with the distribution, but it's really nothing more than a method of getting stuff from point A to point B. The basis for civilization is that we share what we have so that we can all live better lives. This notion of "fruits of labor" only works if a person exists in a vacuum. Which no one does.

    If a person hordes everything they can, and needs a government to tell them to shape up and stop acting like a spoiled child, then that person really has no place in civilization, and would rather be a caveman. Actually, even cavemen pooled their resources so they could all live better. There is actually no civilization in human history where everyone has only worked for their own benefit. Even the rugged frontiersmen of the American West had to work together to survive. We are a communal species. That's how we are. The ones who only worked to benefit themselves were the tyrranical aristocrats and war-leaders who murdered, raped, and pillaged their way through history, and were the exact dynamic that we in America rebelled against. In functional terms, there is no difference between a wealthy business owner and an Earl or a Duke. They own the things you need to live, and use power and force to keep you from having it.

    If someone thinks that the government, which is entirely staffed and run by Americans who grew up in American neighborhoods, raised on American values, attended American schools, does anything besides executing the will of the people, then they are sorely mistaken. Unfortunately, we the American people allowed our will to be expressed in the money owned by a few individuals. And it is our own fault for letting that happen, and we need to do something about that.
    You've just touched on the very contridiction that is "Conservatism!" Think about it...

    The movement claims to be God-fearing Christians which one of the basic tenants of Christianity is "love thy neighbor". Yet one of the guiding priciples behind conservatism is "protecting the American way" which in their storied history doesn't necessary allow for the inclusion of minorities particularly in a leadership role.

    The big issue really is how they view "prosperity". Conservatives truly do see themselves as defenders of American business interest. So, if you're a big time mover and shaker economically, they'll do everything in their power to protect your interest. Problem is conservatism says that those at the top of the economic chain are to support the social and economic interests of those at the bottom via sturdy employment, fair wages and contributions to social needs (i.e., donations to charities). And yet, what we have as a result of allowing businesses to regulate themselves is high unemployment and little assistance on a grand national stage to help those in need. And if you really study U.S. history what you'll discover is just about every time this country has had an economic downturn it starts off by corporate greed. Every recession (and the Depression) this country has every experienced can be traced back to moments of greed or the lack of regulatory oversight (or in some cases no regulations at all).

    Now, that's not to say that deregulation always came at the hand of conservatives. However, from my study of U.S. history particularly between 1920-present, nearly every time this country has experienced a deep recession or depression the origins can be traced to Republican/conservative leadership. Don't take my word for it, though.

    Wikipedia: List of Recessions/Depressions in U.S.

    Independent source: List of U.S. Presidents (w/party affiliation)

    And that's the ironic part. For all the talk of "let the free enterprise system and the markets do what they do" and "low taxes on businesses" or "let me keep more of what I earn," the ultra conservative mindset in over 100 years has yet to grasp the simple concept that while we have checks and balances within our government to halt corruption, there needs to be checks and balances in business as well for the exact same reason. Otherwise, Wall Street runs wild over Main Street.

  4. #74
    Sage
    Harry Guerrilla's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Not affiliated with other libertarians.
    Last Seen
    09-01-17 @ 02:38 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian
    Posts
    28,955

    Re: Sen. Rand Paul: Right To Health Care Is Like Believing In "Slavery"

    Quote Originally Posted by Objective Voice View Post
    You've just touched on the very contridiction that is "Conservatism!" Think about it...

    The movement claims to be God-fearing Christians which one of the basic tenants of Christianity is "love thy neighbor". Yet one of the guiding priciples behind conservatism is "protecting the American way" which in their storied history doesn't necessary allow for the inclusion of minorities particularly in a leadership role.

    The big issue really is how they view "prosperity". Conservatives truly do see themselves as defenders of American business interest. So, if you're a big time mover and shaker economically, they'll do everything in their power to protect your interest. Problem is conservatism says that those at the top of the economic chain are to support the social and economic interests of those at the bottom via sturdy employment, fair wages and contributions to social needs (i.e., donations to charities). And yet, what we have as a result of allowing businesses to regulate themselves is high unemployment and little assistance on a grand national stage to help those in need. And if you really study U.S. history what you'll discover is just about every time this country has had an economic downturn it starts off by corporate greed. Every recession (and the Depression) this country has every experienced can be traced back to moments of greed or the lack of regulatory oversight (or in some cases no regulations at all).

    Now, that's not to say that deregulation always came at the hand of conservatives. However, from my study of U.S. history particularly between 1920-present, nearly every time this country has experienced a deep recession or depression the origins can be traced to Republican/conservative leadership. Don't take my word for it, though.

    Wikipedia: List of Recessions/Depressions in U.S.

    Independent source: List of U.S. Presidents (w/party affiliation)

    And that's the ironic part. For all the talk of "let the free enterprise system and the markets do what they do" and "low taxes on businesses" or "let me keep more of what I earn," the ultra conservative mindset in over 100 years has yet to grasp the simple concept that while we have checks and balances within our government to halt corruption, there needs to be checks and balances in business as well for the exact same reason. Otherwise, Wall Street runs wild over Main Street.
    I can't even begin to debunk that nonsense you just wrote.
    There may exist some deregulation, but that tends to be involved with things that are supported as cartels or monopolies by the government, primarily banking and utilities.

    The progressives wanted this, this cartel power to banks, you got it.
    It's the progressive's burden.
    Last edited by Harry Guerrilla; 05-13-11 at 05:55 PM.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
    —Adam Shepard

  5. #75
    Educator Helvidius's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Good ol' US of A
    Last Seen
    02-01-17 @ 12:41 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian
    Posts
    735

    Re: Sen. Rand Paul: Right To Health Care Is Like Believing In "Slavery"

    What is sad is that Rand Paul brings up a good point, but people will have trouble getting their head around the slavery comparison. The rights guaranteed to people are rights that do not impose an obligation onto other human beings. If healthcare is a right, someone must pay for it. Likewise, someone must perform a task to help those that are sick. To suggest someone has the right to another man or woman's work is ridiculous. That is Paul's point.
    Mr. Madison, what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.

  6. #76
    Sage

    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Huntsville, AL (USA)
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 05:51 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Moderate
    Posts
    9,763

    Re: Sen. Rand Paul: Right To Health Care Is Like Believing In "Slavery"

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    I can't even begin to debunk that nonsense you just wrote.
    There may exist some deregulation, but that tends to be involved with things that are supported as cartels or monopolies by the government, primarily banking and utilities.

    The progressives wanted this, this cartel power to banks, you got it.
    It's the progressives burden.
    And each time Republicans/Conservatives complained about "over-reach, nationlism or socialism" what happened? Those so-called "cartels" were deregulated. And then what insued soon afterwards? And , majority rules, which party was in charge when the bottom fell out?

    Again, do your homework. Understand the true nature of conservatism and then review history. Perhaps then you'll have a different perspective on the matter. As I said, don't take my word for it. I've provided links that provide you with the history. But to be clear, I said "DEEP recession or depression" not every recession or depression.

  7. #77
    Global Moderator
    Truth will set you free
    digsbe's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Metro Washington DC
    Last Seen
    Today @ 08:28 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Other
    Posts
    18,953

    Re: Sen. Rand Paul: Right To Health Care Is Like Believing In "Slavery"

    Yes, because the right to healthcare means the enslavement of those who work in healthcare...
    When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the loser. -Socrates
    Tired of elections being between the lesser of two evils.

  8. #78
    Sage
    Harry Guerrilla's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Not affiliated with other libertarians.
    Last Seen
    09-01-17 @ 02:38 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian
    Posts
    28,955

    Re: Sen. Rand Paul: Right To Health Care Is Like Believing In "Slavery"

    Quote Originally Posted by Objective Voice View Post
    And each time Republicans/Conservatives complained about "over-reach, nationlism or socialism" what happened? Those so-called "cartels" were deregulated. And then what insued soon afterwards? And , majority rules, which party was in charge when the bottom fell out?

    Again, do your homework. Understand the true nature of conservatism and then review history. Perhaps then you'll have a different perspective on the matter. As I said, don't take my word for it. I've provided links that provide you with the history. But to be clear, I said "DEEP recession or depression" not every recession or depression.
    Ya ya, you're trying to use history as a platform for your politics when you don't get at the root of the problem.
    That your political ideology would not tolerate these institutions not being a cartel.

    Top down economics was largely the platform of the progressive movement in the 1910's there on after.
    Now you guys try to blame it on everyone else except those who started the problems.

    No I do not agree with the deregulation of monopolies and cartels, I support getting rid of them altogether, something you guys want no business in.
    You wouldn't have a scape goat for irrational economic policy.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
    —Adam Shepard

  9. #79
    Sage
    Harry Guerrilla's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Not affiliated with other libertarians.
    Last Seen
    09-01-17 @ 02:38 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian
    Posts
    28,955

    Re: Sen. Rand Paul: Right To Health Care Is Like Believing In "Slavery"

    Quote Originally Posted by digsbe View Post
    Yes, because the right to healthcare means the enslavement of those who work in healthcare...
    A right to medical care, this isn't health care because that is hugely broad subject, means that someone else has to pay for it and someone else has to provide the physical labor, for you.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
    —Adam Shepard

  10. #80
    pirate lover
    liblady's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    St Thomas, VI
    Last Seen
    03-14-16 @ 03:55 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Progressive
    Posts
    16,165
    Blog Entries
    1

    Re: Sen. Rand Paul: Right To Health Care Is Like Believing In "Slavery"

    Quote Originally Posted by digsbe View Post
    Yes, because the right to healthcare means the enslavement of those who work in healthcare...
    i thought you were FOR universal healthcare.

    Originally Posted by johnny_rebson:

    These are the same liberals who forgot how Iraq attacked us on 9/11.


Page 8 of 26 FirstFirst ... 67891018 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •