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Thread: Sen. Rand Paul: Right To Health Care Is Like Believing In "Slavery"

  1. #191
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    Re: Sen. Rand Paul: Right To Health Care Is Like Believing In "Slavery"

    Quote Originally Posted by xpiher View Post
    Thats not the point. Theres noting in the bill that prevents seniors from being dropped because they are too old or too sick.
    I'd support a contract language clarification bill.
    Where the language in a contract must be in plain English that most people can understand.

    That should help prevent people being dropped because of hidden or ambiguous clauses.
    Contract law also requires that there be legal consideration, where someone can't create a contract where only one benefits and the other party doesn't.
    That is already largely illegal.

    Contract law is a fun topic (in my opinion), you should check it out.

    Consideration - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Contract - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
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    Re: Sen. Rand Paul: Right To Health Care Is Like Believing In "Slavery"

    Let us all hope that such pronouncements propel Paul to the 2012 GOP nomination.
    __________________________________________________ _
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    Re: Sen. Rand Paul: Right To Health Care Is Like Believing In "Slavery"

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    I'd support a contract language clarification bill.
    Where the language in a contract must be in plain English that most people can understand.

    That should help prevent people being dropped because of hidden or ambiguous clauses.
    Contract law also requires that there be legal consideration, where someone can't create a contract where only one benefits and the other party doesn't.
    That is already largely illegal.

    Contract law is a fun topic (in my opinion), you should check it out.

    Consideration - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Contract - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    I agree. I think we should go back to using contracts for nearly everything and pass a law that requires contracts to be written in plain English. But good luck with that happening. It isn't in any business best interest nor congress.

  4. #194
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    Re: Sen. Rand Paul: Right To Health Care Is Like Believing In "Slavery"

    Quote Originally Posted by Badmutha View Post
    ....only because you think slavery has to entail chains and whips.

    If you believe you have a right to something such as affordable healthcare.....a right that cannot be denied.....then all those in the medical industry are subject to the government's behest.

    When government dictates what the fruits of your labor is worth......you might not call it slavery, but even you cant call it freedom.



    Government involvement has never "better managed" or brought down the costs of anything........

    ......unless you truely believe that people who have never ran anything---like our man-child president......can run everything.
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    I said nothing of whips and chains. I mentioned the absence of payment for services.

    If you think the system we have now is freedom, you are sadly mistaken. Ask anyone who has been denied coverage for catastrophic illness.

    Medicare is an example of a successful government program. Overhead, 3%. Insurance companies are in the mid 20's as far as overhead.

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    Re: Sen. Rand Paul: Right To Health Care Is Like Believing In "Slavery"

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    You've simply dismissed the ideas without reason.
    That is my position, on your opinion.
    Again, I've addressed this with CP, giving reasns and link to support my reasoning. You leap to a conclusion that you really know little about.



    No they don't eliminate choice because I can pursue other avenues of care, with another insurer or my own money.
    And you can with a single payer system just as freely.

    In most of the countries UHC, private non UHC care is criminalized or restricted.
    Your two teir approach is invalid because the 2nd tier in those countries is typically more expensive than the regular care here.
    I currently do not need insurance to go to the doctor.

    You are basing your whole argument on, everyone needs insurance (whether government or private) for everything, when that is patently false.
    The word most supports my point. Most is not equal to all. As I have noted many times, there are several different way to do a single payer system. Any such system here would be two tiered at the least. So, you would be free to buy more.

    And no, out side of a very small number of extremely wealthy people, who likely have insurance, the vast majority cannot handle serious or emergent care. Many can't handle preventive and rountine care. When looking the health of thae majority, it is clear that we need some system that allows for greater access than we have now. I prefer a single payer system. But more than that, I would like our leaders on all sides to set aside the demonizing rethoric and try to actually address the problem.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

  6. #196
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    Re: Sen. Rand Paul: Right To Health Care Is Like Believing In "Slavery"

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Again, I've addressed this with CP, giving reasns and link to support my reasoning. You leap to a conclusion that you really know little about.
    There aren't any reasons why HSA type medical care won't work for most people, none what so ever.


    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    And you can with a single payer system just as freely.
    Except that would defy the reality of how most other UHC systems work.
    Can I stop paying the tax to support it, if I am unhappy with it?
    No.

    No thanks, you take my money whether or not I want the service.

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    The word most supports my point. Most is not equal to all. As I have noted many times, there are several different way to do a single payer system. Any such system here would be two tiered at the least. So, you would be free to buy more.

    And no, out side of a very small number of extremely wealthy people, who likely have insurance, the vast majority cannot handle serious or emergent care. Many can't handle preventive and rountine care. When looking the health of thae majority, it is clear that we need some system that allows for greater access than we have now. I prefer a single payer system. But more than that, I would like our leaders on all sides to set aside the demonizing rethoric and try to actually address the problem.
    Two tiered has always manifested itself as UHC for everyone, but 2nd teir for the societal elite.
    I do not want that, period.

    You don't get it, you do not need insurance for routine care.
    It can be easily paid for out of pocket, it is inexpensive and affordable.

    People, like you, stuck in the 1980's mentality that we have to have insurance to cover everything is precisely why costs have risen, why insurance administration is huge, because people are not required to pay at point of service.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
    —Adam Shepard

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    Re: Sen. Rand Paul: Right To Health Care Is Like Believing In "Slavery"

    Quote Originally Posted by MrVicchio View Post
    Really. Well that's your opinion and you are welcome to it. I disagree. If you believe you have a RIGHT to some item, service or the like, then you are in fact compelling another person to provide it for you. What would happen Boo. if all the doctors in a city were to go on strike? Those that believe there is this mythical "right" to healthcare would then do what?

    Hmm?
    They would only go on strike if you believe they have a right to organize to demand a proper and respectful wage for their skills and services.

    So, you're painting yourself into a corner here.

    Also, I know MANY doctors who don't take Medicare or Medicaid - thus leaving that market open to those who do.

    I couldn't find a single Canadian doctor calling themselves "slaves" doing several differently-worded google searches. Tried the same for the UK and France. Still can't find any doctors in Norway who think of themselves as slaves either.

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    Re: Sen. Rand Paul: Right To Health Care Is Like Believing In "Slavery"

    Quote Originally Posted by Gina View Post
    I said nothing of whips and chains. I mentioned the absence of payment for services.
    And when slaves are compensated with food and shelter.........you might realize that slavery isnt so much about the absence of compensation as it is the absence of CHOICE.......my enslaved friend.

    If you think the system we have now is freedom, you are sadly mistaken. Ask anyone who has been denied coverage for catastrophic illness.
    So a system like Medicare--Who denies more claims than any Private Insurer.....is clearly the solution......

    Medicare is an example of a successful government program. Overhead, 3%. Insurance companies are in the mid 20's as far as overhead.
    ............and a $74,000,000,000,000.00 DOLLAR HOLE.........wake up.
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    Re: Sen. Rand Paul: Right To Health Care Is Like Believing In "Slavery"

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    Ya ya, you're trying to use history as a platform for your politics when you don't get at the root of the problem.
    No.

    I'm using history to illustrate how the idea of allowing the free market system to go unchecked tends to plung the country into economic chaos and that such irresponsible actions usually stem from Right-leaning politics. It's not that deregulation is bad; it's the lack of federal oversight that tends to be the problem. For as history has shown when industries are allowed to police themselves, they usually take unnecessary risks. And when they take such risks it's usually the public that suffers for it. Moreover, when regulations are relaxed, the government usually attempts to put into place federal oversight committees to ensure industry stays on the level. But in nearly every instance where this has occurred and there's been Republican leadership, economic chaos has ensued because leadership turned a blind eye to the issues and favored profits over discipline or the interests of the very people they've sworn an oath to protect.

    Again, don't take my word for it. Review history...
    Last edited by Objective Voice; 05-16-11 at 07:30 PM.

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    Re: Sen. Rand Paul: Right To Health Care Is Like Believing In "Slavery"

    Quote Originally Posted by Objective Voice View Post
    No.

    I'm using history to illustrate how the idea of allowing the free market system to go unchecked tends to plung the country into economic chaos and that such irresponsible actions usually stem from Right-leaning politics. It's not that deregulation is bad; it's the lack of federal oversight that tends to be the problem. For as history has shown when industries are allowed to police themselves, they usually take unnecessary risks. And when they take such risks it's usually the public that suffers for it. Moreover, when regulations are relaxed, the government usually attempts to put into place federal oversight committees to ensure industry stays on the level. But in nearly every instance where this has occurred and there's been Republican leadership, economic chaos has ensued because leadership turned a blind eye to the issues and favored profits over discipline or the interests of the very people they've sworn an oath to protect.

    Again, don't take my word for it. Review history...
    The US hasn't had a free market since after the peak of the industrial revolution.

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