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Thread: Sen. Rand Paul: Right To Health Care Is Like Believing In "Slavery"

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    Re: Sen. Rand Paul: Right To Health Care Is Like Believing In "Slavery"

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    Gouging is a subjective term.
    Most of the time, the perception that someone is being gouged, has no relation to the facts of the situation.
    I'm not disagreeing, but if people didn't pursue the evil maximum, they wouldn't of lobbied congress to get their special break.

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    Re: Sen. Rand Paul: Right To Health Care Is Like Believing In "Slavery"

    Quote Originally Posted by xpiher View Post
    I'm not disagreeing, but if people didn't pursue the evil maximum, they wouldn't of lobbied congress to get their special break.
    And that's where I start to go after "progressives" and their living document nonsense.
    This crap is only allowed because some people believe that the constitution must change with the times, instead of being amended, that the government evolves the right to intervene in the market for the benefit of a constituency.

    With those things you have to accept the good with the bad.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
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    Re: Sen. Rand Paul: Right To Health Care Is Like Believing In "Slavery"

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    And that's where I start to go after "progressives" and their living document nonsense.
    This crap is only allowed because some people believe that the constitution must change with the times, instead of being amended, that the government evolves the right to intervene in the market for the benefit of a constituency.

    With those things you have to accept the good with the bad.
    The general welfare of the people isn't improved by giving tax breaks to some businesses and not others, passing laws that directly interfere with competition, etc.

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    Re: Sen. Rand Paul: Right To Health Care Is Like Believing In "Slavery"

    Quote Originally Posted by xpiher View Post
    The general welfare of the people isn't improved by giving tax breaks to some businesses and not others, passing laws that directly interfere with competition, etc.
    And I agree, but that wasn't what the general welfare clause was meant for.
    The .gov needs to butt out.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
    —Adam Shepard

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    Re: Sen. Rand Paul: Right To Health Care Is Like Believing In "Slavery"

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    And I agree, but that wasn't what the general welfare clause was meant for.
    The .gov needs to butt out.
    The general welfare clause can legitmately used for things like the EPA, NIH, FDA and some of their regulations.

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    Re: Sen. Rand Paul: Right To Health Care Is Like Believing In "Slavery"

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    Yes but the constant tail spin to UHC, is just bandwagoning.
    That isn't serious review.

    Cpwill has already detailed that there are other options available that could cut costs while increasing accessibility.
    Those are routinely ignored because we must follow Europe.

    There are better ways, that doesn't eliminate choice of providers, and may actually be cheaper per month.
    Bandwagoning? I don't see that. One can hold the opinion that UHC is better without bandwagoning. And I've been down CP's road many times. Those options really won't do much, and republcians are nto really inclined to even do those, as noted by all the opportunities they had to actually statr reform. So it is not ignored, but instead something largely looked and found largely wanting.

    And a UHC doesn't have to eliminate choice (though some insurance does), and can be much cheaper as it is in much of the world.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Sen. Rand Paul: Right To Health Care Is Like Believing In "Slavery"

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    I have a choice of insurance companies, a choice of doctors, a choice of medications, pretty much anything I want.
    And you would still have it with the proper single payer system.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Sen. Rand Paul: Right To Health Care Is Like Believing In "Slavery"

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Bandwagoning? I don't see that. One can hold the opinion that UHC is better without bandwagoning. And I've been down CP's road many times. Those options really won't do much, and republcians are nto really inclined to even do those, as noted by all the opportunities they had to actually statr reform. So it is not ignored, but instead something largely looked and found largely wanting.
    But you have.
    You've latched on to it, even though alternatives exist.
    You have no reason to doubt the efficacy of the alternatives, other than you just don't agree, your opinion is not a viable substitute for facts.

    If more people examined the evidence, instead of bandwagoning ideas, more politicians would be interested in pursuing these things.

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    And a UHC doesn't have to eliminate choice (though some insurance does), and can be much cheaper as it is in much of the world.
    But it does eliminate choice, if you want to control costs.
    That is how it controls costs, it does not magically make things cheaper.
    You're essentially taking the easy way out, it's a mental short cut because you're not interested in confronting things, that may contradict your beliefs.
    Last edited by Harry Guerrilla; 05-14-11 at 06:06 PM.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
    —Adam Shepard

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    Re: Sen. Rand Paul: Right To Health Care Is Like Believing In "Slavery"

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    But you have.
    You've latched on to it, even though alternatives exist.
    You have no reason to doubt the efficacy of the alternatives, other than you just don't agree, your opinion is not a viable substitute for facts.

    If more people examined the evidence, instead of bandwagoning ideas, more politicians would be interested in pursuing these things.
    So, if I prefer this, it means I haven't heard or looked at anything else, because if I had, I wouldn't have this, no one, so the only possible answer is CP is right? Seriously, is that your position?


    But it does eliminate choice, if you want to control costs.
    That is how it controls costs, it does not magically make things cheaper.
    You're essentially taking the easy way out, it's a mental short cut because you're not interested in confronting things, that may contradict your beliefs.
    No, it doesn't. First, all insurers refuse to pay for everything you want, and they don't eliminate choice as you mean it. Same witht eh government. That said, nothing prevents you from buying insurance as well, or to pay yourself. You have all the choice you can afford, just as you do now. The only difference, everyone has access to adequate care. Not wish list care, but adequate care. You can go to the doctor you choose (though your insurance won't alwayss allow that), buy more insurance if you want, pay for more on your own.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Sen. Rand Paul: Right To Health Care Is Like Believing In "Slavery"

    Quote Originally Posted by Gina View Post
    There is no comparison to doctors being paid for their services and slavery.
    ....only because you think slavery has to entail chains and whips.

    If you believe you have a right to something such as affordable healthcare.....a right that cannot be denied.....then all those in the medical industry are subject to the government's behest.

    When government dictates what the fruits of your labor is worth......you might not call it slavery, but even you cant call it freedom.

    Your questions are just hyperbole especially since Dr. Paul is comfortable in arguing that medicare is necessary for his own poor and elderly patients.

    Paul, a favorite of the tea party movement, once referred to Medicare as "socialized medicine," but has since toned down his rhetoric about the health insurance program for seniors.

    Paul opposes cutting benefits for current Medicare recipients, Benton said.

    "We're going to need to make some other tough choices about how we fix the insolvency problem," he said. "But cutting benefits for current recipients or near recipients would be immoral."

    We all pay for those who can't afford to pay for their medical needs. Universal/Single Payer coverage would better manage the cost of healthcare for all of us.
    Government involvement has never "better managed" or brought down the costs of anything........

    ......unless you truely believe that people who have never ran anything---like our man-child president......can run everything.
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