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Thread: Sen. Rand Paul: Right To Health Care Is Like Believing In "Slavery"

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    Re: Sen. Rand Paul: Right To Health Care Is Like Believing In "Slavery"

    [QUOTE=Mayor Snorkum;1059483297]It can give:

    Bureaucracy.
    Sad and true

    Obstruction.
    Sad and true

    Economic Depressions.
    The gov caused the depression? This is new for me!

    Poverty.
    It can... But does it?

    War.
    Yep

    Death.
    Yep. War, bombs, capital punishment, murder, does all of these...


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    Re: Sen. Rand Paul: Right To Health Care Is Like Believing In "Slavery"

    Quote Originally Posted by Badmutha View Post
    ......what would happen if there was nothing but Medicare patients?
    Then, Americans would have access to the kind of medical care the Swiss take for granted. Also, in addition to being both cheaper and significantly more efficient, it happens to be what the majority of the American people want, or, as John Kerry put it; '..not politically possible.'
    Economic Left/Right: -7.25, Authoritarian/Libertarian:-7.13
    All over the place, from the popular culture to the propaganda system, there is constant pressure to make people feel that they are helpless, that the only role they can have is to ratify decisions and to consume. -Noam Chomsky

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    Re: Sen. Rand Paul: Right To Health Care Is Like Believing In "Slavery"

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    First of all, it is not "politicizing" an industry to change public policy as it relates to that industry. The Affordable Care Act was not passed because Democrats wanted to stick it to Republican donors, it was passed because they thought it would improve health care.
    No they passed it to get votes, to please their political constituents.
    Improving medical care.....HA!

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    Second of all, it's not like we were previously operating under a laissez-faire health care market, and the idea of regulatory changes was a totally unforeseeable risk for the health care industry. We changed from one set of regulations to another set of regulations. Some companies will adapt to it better than others, and those who thrive under the new regulations will be the winners...as was the case under the previous system.
    No we've continuously added regulations, that have continuously added to the cost.
    When it was entirely unnecessary, but again it was done to appease a political constituency.

    Before the HMO act and the Medicare bill was passed, we were largely operating on a laissez fair medical care system.
    It was doing just fine.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    I agree. But the government SHOULD be in the business of creating a regulatory framework and allowing winners and losers to emerge as the regulations are continuously updated as conditions change.
    There is a divergence on what continuous means.
    I think it means to address fraud and force, you think it means to cover everyone with insurance (whether it is private or public).

    One is necessary, one is not.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    I think this is an apt example of "market fundamentalism," which is one of the most economically destructive ideas to emerge since Marxism. While the free market can OFTEN produce better outcomes for societies than government, it is simply not the case that it ALWAYS can.
    Not at all, you'd have to prove that market incentives do not work with medical care, which you haven't.
    You just co opted the utilitarian idea of government directed medical care.
    Because it's cheaper.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
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    Re: Sen. Rand Paul: Right To Health Care Is Like Believing In "Slavery"

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    Needless to say, both sides are using highly emotive terminology to advance their political positions on medical care.

    His using the slavery example isn't excusable, but neither is the hyperbole coming from those who rant and rave over the supposed problems we have now.
    Glad you don't see the most expensive health care system in the world that is killing people, hurting our economy, bloating our government spending, and is the biggest cause of bankruptsies in the middle class, as a problem!
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

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    Re: Sen. Rand Paul: Right To Health Care Is Like Believing In "Slavery"

    Quote Originally Posted by NGNM85 View Post
    Then, Americans would have access to the kind of medical care the Swiss take for granted. Also, in addition to being both cheaper and significantly more efficient, it happens to be what the majority of the American people want, or, as John Kerry put it; '..not politically possible.'
    What are you talking about?
    "Yes, but are you a Protestant atheist or a Catholic atheist?".- Northern Irish joke

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    Re: Sen. Rand Paul: Right To Health Care Is Like Believing In "Slavery"

    Quote Originally Posted by Arcana XV View Post
    What are you talking about?
    Wow, you were on that like a hawk. I wasn't singling Switzerland out, in particular, it was just the first name that came to mind. Most of Western Europe has superior healthcare to the United States, and they're much more efficient.
    Economic Left/Right: -7.25, Authoritarian/Libertarian:-7.13
    All over the place, from the popular culture to the propaganda system, there is constant pressure to make people feel that they are helpless, that the only role they can have is to ratify decisions and to consume. -Noam Chomsky

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    Re: Sen. Rand Paul: Right To Health Care Is Like Believing In "Slavery"

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    Glad you don't see the most expensive health care system in the world that is killing people, hurting our economy, bloating our government spending, and is the biggest cause of bankruptsies in the middle class, as a problem!
    *Puts on magical swammy hat*

    Predictions of this discussion with you.

    Me: Make a bunch of factual points, with evidence.
    You: Make of a bunch of points.
    Me: Debunk all your evidence.
    You: Resort to appeals to emotion, authority and bandwagon fallacy.

    No thanks.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
    —Adam Shepard

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    Re: Sen. Rand Paul: Right To Health Care Is Like Believing In "Slavery"

    Quote Originally Posted by NGNM85 View Post
    Then, Americans would have access to the kind of medical care the Swiss take for granted. Also, in addition to being both cheaper and significantly more efficient, it happens to be what the majority of the American people want, or, as John Kerry put it; '..not politically possible.'
    .....and all choice is removed from the equation isnt it......for the patients as well as the physicians. It will be the government option.....because there is no other option.

    Got Slavery?
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    .
    .
    .

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    Re: Sen. Rand Paul: Right To Health Care Is Like Believing In "Slavery"

    Quote Originally Posted by Badmutha View Post
    Albeit my point was better......Rand is still spot on.

    Democrats claim there is a "Right to Healthcare".......a Right that cannot be denied. What do you think would happen if doctors nationwide stopped taking Medicare patients?

    ......what would happen if there was nothing but Medicare patients?

    When government decides what the fruits of Rand's labor is worth.....and isnt worth........

    .....you may argue its not really Slavery.........but you sure as hell cant call it Freedom.
    There is no comparison to doctors being paid for their services and slavery.

    Your questions are just hyperbole especially since Dr. Paul is comfortable in arguing that medicare is necessary for his own poor and elderly patients.

    Paul, a favorite of the tea party movement, once referred to Medicare as "socialized medicine," but has since toned down his rhetoric about the health insurance program for seniors.

    Paul opposes cutting benefits for current Medicare recipients, Benton said.

    "We're going to need to make some other tough choices about how we fix the insolvency problem," he said. "But cutting benefits for current recipients or near recipients would be immoral."

    We all pay for those who can't afford to pay for their medical needs. Universal/Single Payer coverage would better manage the cost of healthcare for all of us.

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    Re: Sen. Rand Paul: Right To Health Care Is Like Believing In "Slavery"

    Quote Originally Posted by Gina View Post
    There is no comparison to doctors being paid for their services and slavery.

    Your questions are just hyperbole especially since Dr. Paul is comfortable in arguing that medicare is necessary for his own poor and elderly patients.

    Paul, a favorite of the tea party movement, once referred to Medicare as "socialized medicine," but has since toned down his rhetoric about the health insurance program for seniors.

    Paul opposes cutting benefits for current Medicare recipients, Benton said.

    "We're going to need to make some other tough choices about how we fix the insolvency problem," he said. "But cutting benefits for current recipients or near recipients would be immoral."

    We all pay for those who can't afford to pay for their medical needs. Universal/Single Payer coverage would better manage the cost of healthcare for all of us.
    Rand didn't change his "rhetoric" one bit on this. He has always framed it to make people understand those currently or soon to be relying on this entitlement will not have the rug pulled out from under them.

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