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Sen. Rand Paul: Right To Health Care Is Like Believing In "Slavery"

LOL! The ones that have an interest in living a long and healthy life are doing it now? Living a healthy lifestyle doesn't mean you never get sick, or that you will never age! :sun

Stop trying to put words, in my mouth, again.

Why aren't people changing their lifestyles to prevent or control diseases now?
 
Stop trying to put words, in my mouth, again.

Why aren't people changing their lifestyles to prevent or control diseases now?

The ones that understand the connection between a healthy lifestyle and better health are. What makes you think they are not?
 
The ones that understand the connection between a healthy lifestyle and better health are. What makes you think they are not?

There is no significant financial cost in doing so.
With our current or a UHC system people are to far removed from the immediate costs of treating the disease.

Type 2 diabetes is a perfect example.
Do you know that a lot of diabetics with type 2 could change their diet, to control their glucose, but simply don't because the costs of such aren't as big with insurance subsidy for prescription medications.

UHC will not fix this either.

There are other situations besides this where we can explore, that won't change regardless of the current system or a future UHC system.

UHC does not address the primary problems associated with poor health choices, that if addressed would cause the cost curve to bend down.
 
an attorneys entire profession is based on government having a monopoly on law, so attorneys are slaves to the state, whether they like to see it that way or not.

the same could be said of a teacher. However, you are still forcing the attorney to labor for someone he/she does not want to. This is FACT no matter how much you want to spin it... nice try, though...
 
There is no significant financial cost in doing so.
With our current or a UHC system people are to far removed from the immediate costs of treating the disease.

You decide whether you are going to get sick or not based on what it will cost you? I don't know of a single person that does that!
The only decision is whether to have treatment or not, based on if you can afford it or not. That means people that don't have access to affordable preventative medicine are going to have more costly health problems in the future.

Type 2 diabetes is a perfect example.
Do you know that a lot of diabetics with type 2 could change their diet, to control their glucose, but simply don't because the costs of such aren't as big with insurance subsidy for prescription medications.

So in your mind, people elect to have diabetes because it won't cost them that much? That has got to be one of the stupidest things I've ever heard!

UHC will not fix this either.

Stupidity, no, thankfully it is often fatal! LOL!


UHC does not address the primary problems associated with poor health choices, that if addressed would cause the cost curve to bend down.

UHC stresses a healthy lifestyle just as much as our system does, and it does a much better job at providing affordable preventative care, which also addresses one of the primary causes of more serious health problems.
 
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You decide whether you are going to get sick or not based on what it will cost you? I don't know of a single person that does that!
The only decision is whether to have treatment or not, based on if you can afford it or not. That means people that don't have access to affordable preventative medicine are going to have more costly health problems in the future.

Sure some people don't, but some do.
It matters not, if you know anyone that does.
You're personal bias is not proof of right or wrong.

Preventative medicine does not save money, preventative lifestyles do.
This has already been well sourced and you know this, but continue to perpetuate this myth.

So in your mind, people elect to have diabetes because it won't cost them that much? That has got to be one of the stupidest things I've ever heard!

You can't elect to have diabetes, I never said that.
The word injector strikes again!

Stupidity, no, thankfully it is often fatal! LOL!

Stupidity isn't as fatal as you believe. :)


UHC stresses a healthy lifestyle just as much as our system does, and it does a much better job at providing affordable preventative care, which also addresses one of the primary causes of more serious health problems.

How does it stress a healthy lifestyle?
Explain.

Preventative care does not save money, it has already been proven cheif.
A source, from politifact no less. ;)

PolitiFact | Brooks claims that preventive care will cost the government
 
Sure some people don't, but some do.
It matters not, if you know anyone that does.
You're personal bias is not proof of right or wrong.

I call BS. Let's see the statistics that back up your claim? Or, was this just another of your "theories?"

Preventative medicine does not save money, preventative lifestyles do.

LOL! Any person with any medical knowledge at all, will tell you are full of ****, they both save money and more importantly, they both promote better health! Ask Digsby, if you do not know anyone else in the medical field.

You can't elect to have diabetes, I never said that.

That is damn well what you implied. If it wasn't what point were you trying to make?
How does it stress a healthy lifestyle?
Explain.

Health Care Reform Bill Also Promotes Healthy Lifestyles & Wellness

"The health care bill that Congress passed (H.R. 3200, America’s Affordable Health Choices of 2009) includes several measures to promote health in the public school system as well as measures to promote wellness and prevention of illness among all age groups."

Preventative care does not save money, it has already been proven cheif.
A source, from politifact no less. ;)

PolitiFact | Brooks claims that preventive care will cost the government

"The question to ask is not whether it saves money but whether your money is buying good value in health.

A little background: there are three kinds of prevention. Primary prevention takes place before you have a disease and actually prevents it. Childhood immunizations, for example, are our favorite kind of primary prevention. A few shots and you don't have to worry about your kids getting measles or mumps. Also, counseling people about risky behaviors is primary prevention. If I talk to you about tobacco cessation or sexual behavior and you stop smoking or use condoms as a result, you're preventing a disease.

Preventive services are worth it if they improve health at a relatively low cost.

Secondary prevention is early detection of an existing disease when it is asymptomatic, so you have a much better chance that treatment will cure it. Screening tests are the classic example of secondary prevention: you get a mammogram, find early breast cancer and get treatment that will — we hope — cure it.

Finally, tertiary prevention is optimal treatment of existing chronic disease so that you don't develop known complications. For instance, regular eye and foot exams in patients with diabetes, to watch out for retinal problems and foot ulcers.

Now it turns out that some preventive medicine does actually save money. For example, the cost of vaccinating an entire population for some diseases is actually less than what it would have cost to treat those diseases if they had developed in some of those people. But most types of prevention don't literally save money. The reason for this is that you have to screen a lot of women with mammography, for example, in order to find one breast cancer.

So if it doesn't save money, how do we decide what prevention is worth doing? That's where value comes in. As Dr. Steven Woolf of Virginia Commonwealth University and others argued in a recent paper on this subject, the question of whether prevention saves money and can help pay for health care reform misses the point. What does matter — and this matters both for prevention and treatment services — is value: the health benefit per dollar invested.

Preventive services are worth it if they improve health at a relatively low cost. The way we control health care spending is by moving our money from expensive low-value services — both treatment and prevention — to more cost-effective (NOT cost-saving) high-value interventions. Fewer expensive drugs that extend life a week or a month; more proven early interventions that can extend life for years or decades."
Getting The Most Out Of Preventive Care : NPR
 
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LOL! Any person with any medical knowledge at all, will tell you are full of ****, they both save money and more importantly, they both promote better health! Ask Digsby, if you do not know anyone else in the medical field.

I agree with you. BOTH preventative care (including routine examinations) and a healthy (preventative) lifestyle are vital to maintaining good health, especially as one goes though his/her 40s and later. To say otherwise is rank ignorance.

And no, being a Conservative does not mean one has to leave his heart and compassion at the door...
 
the same could be said of a teacher. However, you are still forcing the attorney to labor for someone he/she does not want to. This is FACT no matter how much you want to spin it... nice try, though...

no, a person that instructs another person is not dependent on a government monopoly to perform their trade. If you can't have an honest exchange dealing in reality, then you are the one spinning things.
 
i still can't get my head around how a person who chooses to work in the Health Profession and dedicates their life to helping sick people could feel like that.

Maybe that's why he got into politics instead.
 
What about being a slave to the almighty dollar? I suspect Rand Paul is one.
 
i still can't get my head around how a person who chooses to work in the Health Profession and dedicates their life to helping sick people could feel like that.

All a politician has to do is watch the news, see what people in their district are raging about...create an argument that placates to the rage and then get ready to serve We The People in Washington.
 
Well i guess the majority of the world are slaves now sense Rand Paul said so...
 
no, a person that instructs another person is not dependent on a government monopoly to perform their trade. If you can't have an honest exchange dealing in reality, then you are the one spinning things.

No one forces another person to be an attorney... you may try to spin it, but sorry, your analogy doesn't work... if you force a lawyer to give his time and labor to someone he/she doesn't want to, then that is no different than Senator Paul's STUPID assertion that believing in the right to health care access is akin to slavery... you know, we have national health care in Taiwan, and I have several friends who are doctors, but they establish private practices under the guidelines of the law (U.S. practitioners also have to set up their own private practices in accordance with the law) and are well compensated for it. No one I know considers this akin to 'slavery'.
 
No one forces another person to be an attorney... you may try to spin it, but sorry, your analogy doesn't work... if you force a lawyer to give his time and labor to someone he/she doesn't want to, then that is no different than Senator Paul's STUPID assertion that believing in the right to health care access is akin to slavery... you know, we have national health care in Taiwan, and I have several friends who are doctors, but they establish private practices under the guidelines of the law (U.S. practitioners also have to set up their own private practices in accordance with the law) and are well compensated for it. No one I know considers this akin to 'slavery'.

you in the habit of repeating the same bs over and over, because that is all you are doing, (minus the mind boringly personal anecdote)
 
That isn't what the right to health care means, or as it's being pursued. The discussion is about the government providing health care, via single payer, not showing up at the doctor's office and demanding it. How disingenuous of him.

i always find this argument interesting. We aren't talking about forcing the doctor to work to provide health care to people, we are just talking about forcing others to work to pay the doctor to provide heath care. What's the difference?
 
i always find this argument interesting. We aren't talking about forcing the doctor to work to provide health care to people, we are just talking about forcing others to work to pay the doctor to provide heath care. What's the difference?

You might want to be a little clearer. I think I know what you're trying to say, but not sure. However, as for us paying for others, we do that now, before reform. Even if we took all tax dollars out of health care, we'd still be paying for others.

Th point is, we should be so free with how we define slavery that the word holds no meaning. Already people are doing that with the word socialism and if we keep it up, words will lose all meaning and we will be using all kinds of words to mean things they were never intended to mean. This will likely hinder communication, which is already difficult.
 
Brilliance that resonates from the Founding.......God Bless Rand Paul......

The Right to the fruits of another's labor.......the Fundamnetal Right and foundation of the Democrat Party.
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I wonder if Rand Paul remembers the Hippocratic Oath he took? Rand Paul and the rest of the tea baggers are nothing more then errand boys and girls for the Koch Brothers
 
You might want to be a little clearer. I think I know what you're trying to say, but not sure. However, as for us paying for others, we do that now, before reform. Even if we took all tax dollars out of health care, we'd still be paying for others.

Th point is, we should be so free with how we define slavery that the word holds no meaning. Already people are doing that with the word socialism and if we keep it up, words will lose all meaning and we will be using all kinds of words to mean things they were never intended to mean. This will likely hinder communication, which is already difficult.

If we told doctors they would have to provides their services to patients for free or be imprisoned, no one would tolerate it. It would be slavery. Even if we told them to work 1/2 a day for free and the other half paid. We would be forcing a person to work against his will.
However the government ask others to work a certain number of hours for free in order to pay the doctor to perform the healthcare. This enslaves these workers the same way. We become property to be used at the behest of the government.

Well, I guess we could just not work and the government would pay us instead.
 
If we told doctors they would have to provides their services to patients for free or be imprisoned, no one would tolerate it. It would be slavery. Even if we told them to work 1/2 a day for free and the other half paid. We would be forcing a person to work against his will.
However the government ask others to work a certain number of hours for free in order to pay the doctor to perform the healthcare. This enslaves these workers the same way. We become property to be used at the behest of the government.

Well, I guess we could just not work and the government would pay us instead.

That is complete nonsense. I assume you mean paying your taxes is working for free. That too is nonsense. Just as we use taxes to pay for departments, we can use them to pay for adequate health care. And no one is in slavery.
 
you in the habit of repeating the same bs over and over, because that is all you are doing, (minus the mind boringly personal anecdote)

And you simply continue to repeat the tripe that doctors are forced to be slaves by the notion that people have the right to health care... if you repeat the same BS over and over again, I will have to point out the absurdity of your BS...
 
Paul has a lot of ideas I agree with such as drastically defending homeland security and foreign aid but this is a silly comment.
 
And you simply continue to repeat the tripe that doctors are forced to be slaves by the notion that people have the right to health care... if you repeat the same BS over and over again, I will have to point out the absurdity of your BS...

repeat? If I said the bull**** you just posted, it would be the first time, not a repeat.

I wonder if Tom Hanks had to spend months and months explaining to simpletons that he never said life was a box of chocolates.
 
I guess I am a slave too since I post on this forum and don't get paid. Well, that is, if you are a complete idiot and with the level of logic only attained by Rand Paul.
 
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