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Thread: Is Congress quietly set for a jobs compromise?

  1. #61
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    Re: Is Congress quietly set for a jobs compromise?

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    In some circumstances we can afford to be more energy inefficient, in other we can't.
    Not if we are thinking long term.

    Increasing national energy efficiency requires that application of single things.
    It doesn't materialize from fiat.
    Well let's do as many as we can. No reason to handicap ourslelves for the future.

    There has to be a reason for a nation to be more energy efficient though.
    There is a reason, cost! We waste more of the energy than any other country in the world, and that keeps getting more an more expensive, which has a severe negative effect on our economy. Its already hurting our economy. Its one of the reasons we are so slow in recovering from the recession.

    Sometimes cost isn't enough reason for most people, sometimes it is.
    Depends on each situation and "single thing."
    So probably better to just wait till we get to depression mode before we act?
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

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    Re: Is Congress quietly set for a jobs compromise?

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    You're too focused on top down planning, that's the problem.

    We don't need presidents and congresses proposing national plans.
    Not every region in the nation needs all of these things.

    Would you create a national plan to install solar panels on all houses when many of them, wouldn't have the same cost benefit as others?
    No that's dumb, but that tends to be the case with government plans.
    No, but building wind farms in the Midwest is something the fed gov can do since it is infrastructure. The only reason its not being done is because wind would be too cheap and too plentiful in the Midwest to give a high enough profit. Or putting breakers on the grind that does things like I said above.

  3. #63
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    Re: Is Congress quietly set for a jobs compromise?

    Quote Originally Posted by xpiher View Post
    No, but building wind farms in the Midwest is something the fed gov can do since it is infrastructure. The only reason its not being done is because wind would be too cheap and too plentiful in the Midwest to give a high enough profit. Or putting breakers on the grind that does things like I said above.
    Wind is intermittent.
    Things like that and solar require the use of some kind of storage system, like a battery, capacitor, or fly wheel type device.

    None of which are practical enough to implement yet.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
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    Re: Is Congress quietly set for a jobs compromise?

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    Wind is intermittent.
    Things like that and solar require the use of some kind of storage system, like a battery, capacitor, or fly wheel type device.

    None of which are practical enough to implement yet.
    Wind is intermediate on the cost, its practically constant in the Midwest, which is why its not as profitable in the midwest thus why more wind farms are being built on both coast. Indiana is building a few wind-farms, but not enough IMO. If I had the funds, or the contacts, I'd start my own wind farms throughout the Midwest, but I don't

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    Re: Is Congress quietly set for a jobs compromise?

    Quote Originally Posted by xpiher View Post
    AFIK, in Obama's Energy legislation there was to be a massive investment in modernizing the national energy grid to a "smart grind" system that basically directs power to were it needs to go instead of just pumping it out like what happens now. Included in that legislation, IRRC was things repubs couldn't stand like Cap and Trade maybe.
    About $4.2 billion was funded for the power grid as part of the Recovery Act.
    Department of Energy - OE Recovery Act - Funding Opportunities

    Do you have a link to the funding bill you were speaking of that got voted down?
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

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    Re: Is Congress quietly set for a jobs compromise?

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    Not if we are thinking long term.
    Some people can waste energy.
    It falls right in line with the subjective theory of value.

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    Well let's do as many as we can. No reason to handicap ourslelves for the future.
    That's stupid because you lump in the inefficient with the efficient.
    Let people decide what is most efficient for themselves.

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    There is a reason, cost! We waste more of the energy than any other country in the world, and that keeps getting more an more expensive, which has a severe negative effect on our economy. Its already hurting our economy. Its one of the reasons we are so slow in recovering from the recession.
    And many people do not mind the cost.
    Usage will decline, if people can't afford it.

    That is how these things work.

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    So probably better to just wait till we get to depression mode before we act?
    No but this is yet another problem I have with you.
    It's either all or nothing in your estimation.

    Things don't work like that in the real world.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
    —Adam Shepard

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    Re: Is Congress quietly set for a jobs compromise?

    Quote Originally Posted by xpiher View Post
    Wind is intermediate on the cost, its practically constant in the Midwest, which is why its not as profitable in the midwest thus why more wind farms are being built on both coast. Indiana is building a few wind-farms, but not enough IMO. If I had the funds, or the contacts, I'd start my own wind farms throughout the Midwest, but I don't
    Wind is not consistent, not even in the Midwest.
    If it were free and consistently reliable, it wouldn't be ignored.

    The problem stems from that there is no practical storage device for when the wind isn't blowing hard enough.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
    —Adam Shepard

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    Re: Is Congress quietly set for a jobs compromise?

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    About $4.2 billion was funded for the power grid as part of the Recovery Act.
    Department of Energy - OE Recovery Act - Funding Opportunities

    Do you have a link to the funding bill you were speaking of that got voted down?
    Well memory often proves to be faulty. It seems that the president used the stimulus to get parts of the his purposed energy bill through congress.
    http://www.pbs.org/newshour/updates/...rgy_08-09.html

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    Re: Is Congress quietly set for a jobs compromise?

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    You're too focused on top down planning, that's the problem.
    Top down is where the leadership has to come from, private corps are only interested in profits. Peak oil is upon us and the private market didn't come through. Why should they, they are making the most profit anyone has ever made in history of the planey while our economy is going down the tubes.
    Would you create a national plan to install solar panels on all houses when many of them, wouldn't have the same cost benefit as others?
    No that's dumb, but that tends to be the case with government plans
    No, I would provide substantial tax credits for those that built energy efficiencty into their construction projects or retrogrades, and put alot more money into R&D. That is how it was working in the 70's, before it was scrapped.
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

  10. #70
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    Re: Is Congress quietly set for a jobs compromise?

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    Top down is where the leadership has to come from, private corps are only interested in profits. Peak oil is upon us and the private market didn't come through. Why should they, they are making the most profit anyone has ever made in history of the planey while our economy is going down the tubes.
    Top down makes tons of mistakes at the cost to taxpayers, who may have better ideas.
    Top down is corporate welfare, which you usually don't support.

    Leadership comes from those who see problems and find their own individual way to alleviate them, through innovation and experimentation.

    Part 2 of this problem is that oil is still cheap enough and most people are fine with it for now.
    There are other developments in process, you're just being too impatient.
    Plus this isn't about transportation.

    You said our economy was recovering, now it's going down the tubes?


    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    No, I would provide substantial tax credits for those that built energy efficiencty into their construction projects or retrogrades, and put alot more money into R&D. That is how it was working in the 70's, before it was scrapped.
    R&D does not need government money.
    There are a ton of things on the horizon you don't know about that haven't arisen because of government money.

    Stop being so impatient.
    You can not see everything in development in the world.
    These things take time.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
    —Adam Shepard

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