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Thread: GOP official apologizes for Obama chimp email

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    Re: GOP official apologizes for Obama chimp email

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    Actually I think he's saying the majority of minorities don't want to vote for Republicans, since he clearly is talking about the Republican Party. But nice Sharptoning of his post.

    And what he says is true. The majority of minorities aren't likely to vote for Republicans. The fallacy some people make is in thinking that said fact means Republicans don't care about minorities or are racists for not actively courting minorities through race based recruitment.
    Yes, I agree with you for the most part. I don't deny there is some component of racial/ethnic tension, but I wouldn't deny that existing for either party. On the other hand, Republicans have at least desired more minority affiliation...but might not get it because policy positions may be significantly different from the community.
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    Re: GOP official apologizes for Obama chimp email

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    Yes, I agree with you for the most part. I don't deny there is some component of racial/ethnic tension, but I wouldn't deny that existing for either party. On the other hand, Republicans have at least desired more minority affiliation...but might not get it because policy positions may be significantly different from the community.
    I made a long post about this in another thread and why I think minorities generally vote Democrat, and why minorities may be unlikely to vote for the Tea Party. I figure many of the reasons are similar for the Republican party in regards to the latter explanation. Here's the general summary of the reasons I felt it was likely you'd have blacks, which make up the largest minority, voted Democrat and I think some of it would apply for other minorities as well:

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    So, in general summary, my thoughts....

    1) The after affects of the civil rights era
    2) The prominence of left leaning black political organizations
    3) The higher reliance on services supported by Democrats and opposed by Republicans
    4) The perception, right or wrong, that the Democrats are more in touch with issues important to blacks
    5) Conservative ideology making identity based recruitment less frequent than on the opposite side

    I think all those things largely play into why many of the majority of the African American population tends to vote Democrat.
    Click the arrow to get the more in detailed quote. I just didn't want to repost the whole long post into this thread.

    I think you're right in that the Republicans definitely desire minority votes. The difference is they want minorities to vote for them because they agree with Republican ideals, not because they're tailoring specific policies to "benefit [minority x]". ie, they want a minority to vote for them because the minority thinks that their policies will help them, not because the minority thinks they're making policies that are aimed specifically to help that minority.

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    Re: GOP official apologizes for Obama chimp email

    Quote Originally Posted by celticwar17 View Post
    I dont understand the relevance of your little "reality" shindig. Reality is the facts and the concept of race does not match the facts.
    Quote Originally Posted by celticwar17 View Post
    "1. If race is genetic, how it is not real?"
    OMG you are so fustrating, the misconception of the thing we call "race" tries to be based on genetics.
    I'm frustrating? You're the one who said:
    Quote Originally Posted by celticwar17
    Like many, you seem to be confusing between culture and "race"... "race" is genetic, and culture is NOT necessarily so...
    Don't say it if you don't meant it.

    Quote Originally Posted by celticwar17 View Post
    Race is NOT real, you can see every color of skin on the melatonin rainbow.
    Race is real as an idea. It is not real as a human characteristic.

    Quote Originally Posted by celticwar17 View Post
    It's stupid to identify yourself on the basis of physical characteristics, these differences are arbitrary and should be recognized as such by the government. If i had your head i would be a white supremacist, but im not i think there is no such thing race just racist people that try to make it a reality.
    Sure it's stupid. People still do it and ignoring that fact doesn't help anyone.

    Quote Originally Posted by celticwar17 View Post
    it was just a general non-serious hypothesis that i had thinking that liberals are racist, but you are definitely making it more and more convincing to me that your ideology toward this issue is based on racism.
    What issue and what ideology? I don't even know what you're talking about.

    Quote Originally Posted by celticwar17 View Post
    Your way of thinking just divides and slows the progress of humanity.
    Please explain how acknowledging that people have racial identities and that racism exists "divides and slows the progress of humanity"? Would you have me close my ears whenever someone says "black" or "white"?
    Last edited by ThePlayDrive; 04-19-11 at 05:50 PM.

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    Re: GOP official apologizes for Obama chimp email

    Quote Originally Posted by celticwar17 View Post
    Okay, you do not make sense....
    I say racism does not exist.
    You say racism is an idea... i agree
    You say ideas are real... depends what you mean by "real" real as it is in your head, yes. Real as in it is based on actual scientific evidence, not necessarily.
    I mean real as in, it exists in our minds. Ideas exist in our minds, objects and entities exist outside of them.

    Your example, "the idea of a unicorn is real, but unicorns are not. Ideas are real." fails
    we are replacing race with unicorn
    That example works perfectly actually. The idea of race as a natural division is real, but race as a natural division is not real. The idea of a unicorn in nature is real, but a unicorn in nature is not real...

    people definitely have the idea, but it is a misconception, a fallacy when applied to the real world when every human being is born with equal rights.
    Sure, I'd prefer a world where no one thought in terms of race.

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    Re: GOP official apologizes for Obama chimp email

    Quote Originally Posted by theplaydrive View Post
    Please explain how acknowledging that people have racial identities and that racism exists "divides and slows the progress of humanity"? Would you have me close my ears whenever someone says "black" or "white"?
    No, but i would prefer our government to NOT recognize racial divides and later culture will follow afterward.

    "Race is real as an idea. It is not real as a human characteristic."
    EXACTLY, because your idea of race is instead a CULTURE( a culture that labels group differences on the basis of skin instead by the content of their character)... race doesn't exist in the real world, and a neutral institution should not recognize it!
    Last edited by celticwar17; 04-19-11 at 06:08 PM.

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    Re: GOP official apologizes for Obama chimp email

    Quote Originally Posted by theplaydrive View Post
    I mean real as in, it exists in our minds. Ideas exist in our minds, objects and entities exist outside of them.


    That example works perfectly actually. The idea of race as a natural division is real, but race as a natural division is not real. The idea of a unicorn in nature is real, but a unicorn in nature is not real...


    Sure, I'd prefer a world where no one thought in terms of race.
    Wait wait wait.... who will ever debate whether the idea of race exists or not?! That is absolutely obvious. We are discussing that the laws of our society should not be based on this "idea" of race because it is inherently prejudicial.

    And i don't agree with your opinion on racial divide as grown stronger in the last forty years... that's kind of laughable.

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    Re: GOP official apologizes for Obama chimp email

    Quote Originally Posted by ReverendHellh0und View Post
    i think quotas and affirmative action are just as racist. "oh don't worry black, we dumbed down teh standards for you"... If I was black I'd be highly offended of being viewed that way.
    As much as I'd like to see affirmative action done away with, IMHO, I believe it remains the only tool minorities have to "level the playing field" for entrance into educational and career fields minorities have been historically blocked from admission or acceptance to. Let's be honest if we can: segregationist ideals that foster cultural separation and inequality have been woven into the fabric of our legislation and "standard of living" for over 150 years. It started with the Constitution itself and continued until the Civil Rights Act was passed in the mid-60's. But even after its passage there were still local and state initiatives that prohibited minorities from taking up residence in mostly all-white neighborhoods, denied them adequant, if any, community services or proper protection and even kept many potential minority entrepruneurs from becoming members of our nation's free enterprise system.

    If we're going to have this kind of discussion, we need to be honest about it and not tip-toe around it. Racism in America does exist even today. In some instances, it's very much "in your face", i.e., AZ immirgration reform or the all-out misguided hatred of American Muslims, but I think if people would just stop being so pissed off over the racial rhetoric and just talk to one another maybe, just maybe this nation can someday set such things as affirmative action or even indefinite aid to Native-American Indians aside and treat people fairly and equally. It's the only way racism dies out. But first it starts with White America admitting to their wrong-doing, to which, some states like NC has acknowledged after years of denial.

    I was proud of NC's legislature for admitting their part in fostering racism because now residents of that state can being the process bettere race relations (which I'm sure they're well on their way towards doing).

    Personal Note: Yes, I'm bumping that thread because I think it's a very relevent topic to discuss particularly now! Unfortunately, it seems people are too afraid to touch the subject. Why?
    Last edited by Objective Voice; 04-19-11 at 06:28 PM.

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    Re: GOP official apologizes for Obama chimp email

    Quote Originally Posted by ReverendHellh0und View Post
    What in the sam hill are you babbling about?
    Your strong reaction to the tactics of the extreme right being exposed and called out. But then you knew that all along or otherwise you would not have bothered to post.
    Last edited by haymarket; 04-19-11 at 06:37 PM.
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    Re: GOP official apologizes for Obama chimp email

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    Yes, I agree with you for the most part. I don't deny there is some component of racial/ethnic tension, but I wouldn't deny that existing for either party. On the other hand, Republicans have at least desired more minority affiliation...but might not get it because policy positions may be significantly different from the community.
    You know, the crazy thing is prior to 1940 Blacks voted Republican until their racist cat was out of the bag...Blacks began to see how Republicans were undermining them, using white business leaders to do their "segregationish" dirty work for them and then conservative Republicans would use "plausible deniability" to say they weren't fostering such separatist ideas. Once minorities saw Democrats were willing to atleast help them become part of mainstream America just a little, they began to vote the Democrat ticket and really have never looked back since especially when it was a southern Democrat who enacted civil rights legislation. And now look at what's happening in our current national politics?

    We have folks even on this board making the broad claim that most minorites are lazy, good for nothing, don't want to work, can't hold a job, are drug addicts, convicts, alcoholics, rabble-rousering troublemakers who are nothing more than a blite on society, a drain on the national economy and basically the scum of the Earth. These very same notions were espoused throughout this nation's history, but no one wants to acknowledge that much of what is now manifesting itself today in Black and Hispanic communities TODAY can be traced back to local, state and federal laws that were intended to purposely keep minorities from "fitting in".

    I'm not trying to be militant. I really am not. I just want folks to understand how we got to this point - the truth about it - and then maybe, just maybe we can all work to do what's right to turn this racial issue around.

    I truly believe we're ALL connected and the only way we not only make this country the greatest country on Earth but retain its #1 standing is to work together. To that, racism - this US -vs- THEM mentality - has to die out.

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    Re: GOP official apologizes for Obama chimp email

    Quote Originally Posted by ReverendHellh0und View Post
    So are you saying that minorities don't want to vote for white people? And who is getting called out as racist?
    Actually African American have been voting for white folks in large numbers most of their lives. They have had precious few opportunities to vote for anything else beside those on lower down ballot local offices. And even then that is usually limited to those in large urban centers like big cities African Americans know a whole lot more about a life time history of voting for Whites than Whites do about voting for people of color. Barack Obama is just the period at the end of a very long sentence and even then he is of blended ethnicities

    The State Rep I am chief of staff for represents a district 85% African American. He is not.
    Last edited by haymarket; 04-19-11 at 06:43 PM.
    __________________________________________________ _
    There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.... John Rogers

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