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Thread: The People of Vermont vs. Nuclear Power

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    Re: The People of Vermont vs. Nuclear Power

    Quote"The Daichi Fukushima power plants exceeded its design specifications in that it was able to withstand a 8.0M when it was designed to withstand much lower earthquakes.:End Quote

    So you admit it was a design failure. Me too. Another failure of the human element. Hubris, arrogance, pride, and profit. As for the politicians, I didn't vote for him last time. It seems that persons who think independently are not allowed to run. Is there an alternative? Wait it out? Revolution? Vote????? What Corporation are you voting for? Where are the vestiges of the Rockefeller empire and are they still functional? My candidate only has a billion dollars, ergo he has no power? Who got de power? TEPCO got de power and dey just stuck some up your nose!
    Last edited by DaveFagan; 04-17-11 at 02:38 PM. Reason: spellling

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    Re: The People of Vermont vs. Nuclear Power

    Quote Originally Posted by DaveFagan View Post
    Quote"The Daichi Fukushima power plants exceeded its design specifications in that it was able to withstand a 8.0M when it was designed to withstand much lower earthquakes.:End Quote

    So you admit it was a design failure. Me too. Another failure of the human element. Hubris, arrogance, pride, and profit. As for the politicians, I didn't vote for him last time. It seems that persons who think independently are not allowed to run. Is there an alternative? Wait it out? Revolution? Vote????? What Corporation are you voting for? Where are the vestiges of the Rockefeller empire and are they still functional? My candidate only has a billion dollars, ergo he has no power? Who got de power? TEPCO got de power and dey just stuck some up your nose!
    I think your definition of "design failure" and my definition are two different things.... It exceeded what it was supposed to do, that means it was a "design success". I really don't care about the politics in this one because there is no right answer, but the nuclear reactors are built much better than what most people give them credit...
    We the People of the United States,... provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare....
    Where did it ever say, promote for the common defence, and provide the general Welfare..... Please don't mix up the two....

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    Re: The People of Vermont vs. Nuclear Power

    Quote Originally Posted by DaveFagan View Post
    Oh yeh! and nuclear fusion is just six months away, and if, maybe, woulda, coulda, and the moon is made of green cheese.
    Fusion is at least 25 to 50 years. But pebble bed reactors and thorium self regulating aren't. Right now pebble beds are being used for research purposes into new designs.

    I repeat myself. " It is the Centralized Distribution Network that is the fly in the ointment. This worked wonderfully until we realized the future costs. It is past time for change. Power must be made in-house. Eliminate the multiplying inefficiencies of the Centralized Distribution Network that is the reason we have nukes in the first place.
    You really think the electrical grid of the US is centralized? Do you realize the LACK of centralization is one of the major problems with widescale use of wind power? The various differing grids across the US are one of the reason why Texas wind power cannot be used efficiently across the country. A decetralized approach is holding up solar as well. You appear to be operating from a position of ignorance.

    It is actually Centralized Collection of Monies and the raison d'etra. In-home solar. In-home windmill. In-home electric generator with collection of waste heat. Installation makes jobs. Repair makes jobs. Energy and dollar savings are likely spent in the local marketplace, making more jobs.
    By that measure we should ban all imports. If everything must be done in house, we should just do everything in our own neighborhood.

    We exported our manufacturing base so we have to restart somewhere. What better place than to make jobs by actually solving problems. You sock puppet is being paid by the Corporate hand to not do this. So what would we change?"
    Really? Care to guess who's the #1 manufacturer by volume and dollar value? Hint, it ain't China. Or Germany. Or Japan.

    Tell me, what makes you think you are able to discuss this subject well when you treat nuclear as a single entity with no variation between designs?
    "If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him." - Sun Tzu

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    Re: The People of Vermont vs. Nuclear Power

    Quote Originally Posted by DaveFagan View Post
    Quote"The Daichi Fukushima power plants exceeded its design specifications in that it was able to withstand a 8.0M when it was designed to withstand much lower earthquakes.:End Quote

    So you admit it was a design failure. Me too. Another failure of the human element. Hubris, arrogance, pride, and profit. As for the politicians, I didn't vote for him last time. It seems that persons who think independently are not allowed to run. Is there an alternative? Wait it out? Revolution? Vote????? What Corporation are you voting for? Where are the vestiges of the Rockefeller empire and are they still functional? My candidate only has a billion dollars, ergo he has no power? Who got de power? TEPCO got de power and dey just stuck some up your nose!
    Interesting and your objections seem to be worthy and that being said, what would you do for a alternative energy source, any idea's? We hear complaints and condemnation of those who attempt to supply us with energy, yet those who do the complaining have no viable alternative plan.
    ...because anarchy definetly isn't the answer nor is big government and it's welfare cases both private and corporate.

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    Re: The People of Vermont vs. Nuclear Power

    Quote Originally Posted by deltabtry View Post
    Interesting and your objections seem to be worthy and that being said, what would you do for a alternative energy source, any idea's? We hear complaints and condemnation of those who attempt to supply us with energy, yet those who do the complaining have no viable alternative plan.
    ...because anarchy definetly isn't the answer nor is big government and it's welfare cases both private and corporate.
    "It is actually Centralized Collection of Monies and the raison d'etra. In-home solar. In-home windmill. In-home electric generator with collection of waste heat. Installation makes jobs. Repair makes jobs. Energy and dollar savings are likely spent in the local marketplace, making more jobs."
    In home is the solution. It cuts Centralized Distribution out of the loop. Now do you know why there is so much big money, organized opposition to independent energy, alternative energy and renewable energy. Money talks. Corporate is the name on the hand up your Legislative (Senator or Representative) sock puppet's ass. Spell that Entergy, Nuke Power, Exxon/Mobil, Chevron, BP, Duke Energy, just to name a few. Study your Congressman's campaign donation list. And hot damn, mon, it's not a bribe. Nosiree. Definitely not. But if it looks like chit, smells like chit, and feels like chit, might be de same ol' chit.

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    Re: The People of Vermont vs. Nuclear Power

    Quote Originally Posted by DaveFagan View Post
    "It is actually Centralized Collection of Monies and the raison d'etra. In-home solar. In-home windmill. In-home electric generator with collection of waste heat. Installation makes jobs. Repair makes jobs. Energy and dollar savings are likely spent in the local marketplace, making more jobs."
    In home is the solution. It cuts Centralized Distribution out of the loop. Now do you know why there is so much big money, organized opposition to independent energy, alternative energy and renewable energy. Money talks. Corporate is the name on the hand up your Legislative (Senator or Representative) sock puppet's ass. Spell that Entergy, Nuke Power, Exxon/Mobil, Chevron, BP, Duke Energy, just to name a few. Study your Congressman's campaign donation list. And hot damn, mon, it's not a bribe. Nosiree. Definitely not. But if it looks like chit, smells like chit, and feels like chit, might be de same ol' chit.
    Corporate welfare in exchange for monies, well this is corruption and this being the case the people have the power to throw them out, except the government offers the voters free stuff in exchange for remaining in office, I am wit you on this . Now for getting off the grid is admiral endeavor but currently not achievable by most citizens, it to expensive currently in the short term. It takes a lot of energy to make these products from soup to nuts, and I see what your referring to is the finish product. On the scale we would need to get off the grid will take a lot more than any mandates can achieve and in our current situation, this will be put on hold for a very long time. Oil, gas, coal and nuclear is all we have currently and will be required at a reasonable p[rice to be able to achieve some alternate fuel,and of course a change in the mindset of the American people......100 years this will take or more. the American people are reactionary and not proactive, never have been and probably never will be.

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    Re: The People of Vermont vs. Nuclear Power

    Quote Originally Posted by DaveFagan View Post
    So we should trust those engineers. Fukushima was designed to the max and did not include design consideration of this "never happen" event. Murphy's Law. The event at Fukushima was natural, but the nuke plant was not. It is a blatant advertisement of "design failure."
    I don't claim to be as smart as you folks. But I seem to remember reading about the number of deaths becuase of coal se to be in the thousands per year. Due to the dirty air people near their plants have to breath, plus the people killed in coal mines.

    I understand is it fun the sit around and postulate worst case situations for everything/anything. I am sure there are corrupt politicians continuing to allow the production of automobiles although we know tens of thousands of people die in autos each year. we keep the beaches open, probably a conspiracy with the medical industry so they get to threat skin cancer.

    Take this arguement to it's logical extreme and we should all move back in caves and eat nuts found in the woods.

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    Re: The People of Vermont vs. Nuclear Power

    Quote Originally Posted by deltabtry View Post
    Corporate welfare in exchange for monies, well this is corruption and this being the case the people have the power to throw them out, except the government offers the voters free stuff in exchange for remaining in office, I am wit you on this . Now for getting off the grid is admiral endeavor but currently not achievable by most citizens, it to expensive currently in the short term. It takes a lot of energy to make these products from soup to nuts, and I see what your referring to is the finish product. On the scale we would need to get off the grid will take a lot more than any mandates can achieve and in our current situation, this will be put on hold for a very long time. Oil, gas, coal and nuclear is all we have currently and will be required at a reasonable p[rice to be able to achieve some alternate fuel,and of course a change in the mindset of the American people......100 years this will take or more. the American people are reactionary and not proactive, never have been and probably never will be.
    It is not too expensive to get off the grid. It just requires a National effort. The biggest supporter of the grid is governments. Take a look at any utility bill and add up the taxes in the bill. This is free money to governments and if you shut down the grid, the governments no longer get their "vig" as an alternative power group calls it. The gov'ts are addicted to these revenues like mainline heroin and that is the resistance to change, "inertia" that prevents our movement to alternative energy. If you use a gasoline engine generator with an exhaust heat exchanger to make hot water for heating as well as potable uses, energy use is about 1/8th of what is used on the current grid. The existing distribution network is a case of multiplying inefficiencies generating huge amounts of waste heat and that is its major flaw. Solar panels, 3-400 watt windmills, an gasoline electric generator (likely less than 2 horsepower), and batteries (preferably rebuildable), and inverters. These must be in homes insulated like walk-in coolers and have heat exchangers to periodically deal with stale air. 1 watt LED light bulbs. Make your own wind generators with wooden props and DC motors. Does that sound complicated? It is the reality. Make note that the government doesn't collect any tax revenue as you produce your own power. Add up what the gov't would lose and you know why gov't really doesn't get behind this movement. This is just a quick overview but the Alternative Energy people don't own any sock puppets. The big Energy people own lots of sock puppets.
    Last edited by DaveFagan; 04-18-11 at 10:05 AM. Reason: spellling

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    Re: The People of Vermont vs. Nuclear Power

    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce View Post
    The average coal plant spits more radioactive material into the atmosphere than a nuclear plant generates in its entirety, and that's when things are going well.
    Interesting statement... can we have a cite, or will "Deuce says so" be sufficient?

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    Re: The People of Vermont vs. Nuclear Power

    Our actual major concern should be that it is supposed to be government "of the people, by the people, for the people" and this smacks of Corporate intimidation to go against the "people." Here you go, "stick this nuke plant up your arse!" DaveFagan Some might suggest that this is an over-simplication, but if you are for the people, it is the only solution.

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