Libya: Nato must do more, say France and UK

[Cold Highway]

The UK's William Hague urged Nato allies to intensify military operations, but a Nato general said the alliance was "doing a great job".

Libyan rebels opposing Col Gaddafi have been pushed back despite the air raids.

Pro-Gaddafi forces launched fresh artillery attacks on the rebel-held city of Misrata on Tuesday.

The last rebel-held area in the west, Misrata has been under siege for more than six weeks, with rights groups warning of a shortage of food and medical supplies.

Euro-tards start a mindless war, Obama joins in to save face and now the Euros want the US to hold the bag again. Another reason why NATO is nothing but a relic of the Cold War.

BBC News - Libya: Nato must do more, say France and UK

 

[TheDemSocialist]

I think NATO and other countries should honestly just stay out of other peoples civil wars....

 

[Harry Guerrilla]

Euro-tards start a mindless war, Obama joins in to save face and now the Euros want the US to hold the bag again. Another reason why NATO is nothing but a relic of the Cold War.

BBC News - Libya: Nato must do more, say France and UK

Then I encourage France and the UK to follow through with bold action themselves, to complete whatever their goal is.

 

[Manc Skipper]

The statement was made at a European Ministers meeting for a reason. Britain and France are seeking extra support for a further 10 missions per day from their European NATO allies. They are aware that the Americantards are unwilling, which will make President Obama politically reluctant to do so.

 

[katsung47]

Behind Libya war

664. Libya oil as payment (4/11/2011)

Though the media use beautiful words “humanity”, “protect people”, “democracy” to cover up the war the Western powers activated, there is always dirty deals behind the scenes. Three years ago, I wrote “541. Eiffel Tower bombing had been planned for Iran war (2/28/08)” and “542. Terror attack, prophecy and payment (3/4/08) “. In which I point out “What will Sarcozy get for the secret deal of Eiffel Tower bombing and Iran war? Here is one of the payments.

"US lawmakers blast Boeing defense contract snub
Mar 1 (2008)

US lawmakers have reacted angrily after the US military awarded a 35-billion-dollar aircraft deal to Europe's Northrop Grumman/EADS group, in a major blow to US manufacturers Boeing.

US lawmakers blast Boeing defense contract snub “

Three years later, there is an abrupt turn.

Pentagon Awards Boeing Tanker Contract Worth $35 Billion
Decision Follows Decade of Wrangling; EADS, Alabama Lose Out; 50,000 Jobs in Washington, Kansas
Feb. 24, 2011

Pentagon and Air Force Award Re-Fueling Tanker Contract to Boeing over EADS - ABC News

The background of this abrupt turn was: “Libya unrest: Air strike on protesters in Tripoli”, “ Libya unrest: Gaddafi forces violently quell Tripoli protest” which took place in mid-February. When US found a chance (likely created by CIA) to keep the profitable tanker contract for itself, they change the deal. The military contract was replaced by Libya oil interest. So I wrote” Libya deal”,

“3/25/2011

It should have been a secret deal among US, Great Britain and France.

Libya's oil interest has been sold to head countries of the NATO to exchange their support of Iran war. That's why France is so active to bomb Libya. War on Iran needs justification - a 911 alike terror attack. Britain and France would allow such false flag "terror attack" taking place in their territory. That possibly would be a dirty bomb attack.

Watch for the coming “terror attack” on Eiffle Tower, though in the name of “Islamic extremists”, actually from the puppets of western intelligence.”

As I always revealed the plots of the Feds in advance, they tried their best to discredit my prediction. This time they have another abrupt turn in Libya deal. In early April, the news headlines were: “Gadhafi troops recapture oil town” (A.P. 3/31); “Libya rebel leader says NATO falls short in mission”(A.P. 4/6); “Apparent NATO strike hits rebel convoy in Libya” (A.P. 4/8); “More Libyan rebels slain by NATO attacks” (4/9 Los Angeles Times) When the army of Gadhafi is heavily damaged by NATO’s air attack, how could it become such a condition?

A news of 4/8 solved my puzzle. The news in Chinese newspapers asked, “Official merchant? Merchant official? Chief Director assigned Governor of Province” (Watch China, 4/8). It says that the Chief Director of the Board of China Petro-Chemistry – Su Shu Ling, is assigned by Beijing to be a member of the committee of Communist Party of Fujian as well as the Vice Governor of FujiJan Province. He still keeps his post as Chief Director of the Board of China Petro-Chemistry. Chinese web site criticize, “ After all is he an official, or a merchant?”. “How could it be possible? Like Bill Gates to be assigned Mayor of Los Angles appointed by Washington”.

The unusual appointment on 4/2 indicates the Libya oil interest now is the payment to China. Chinese oil company is the interest receiver. Select Fujian is not a coincidence. From the beginning, I said it is the original place the Feds and their Chinese counterpart frame the drug case. (see “ 142. Drug case in Fujian” and “143. Drug case in Fujian (continuation)(7/10)” ) Not everybody willing to commit a crime to frame a drug case and kill a lot of innocent people. So there was such a show. They link the oil interest to the framed drug case and give Su all the high ranking title to commit the crime. Fujian Province is also my wife’s home country where she has many relatives. I worry there will be a mass killing to silence people.

The change of secret deal is swift, abrupt and very effective. All mean there will be big case in April and May when the Patriot Act ends. (Possible starting date is around 4/17.) Three days ago I was told Y came to US again. I have alleged him being a government informant. (see “ 639. FISA plot continues (6/27/2010)” ) I think he will play a Troy wood Horse in coming drug case. There will be “terror attack” in US, G.B. and France to justify war on Iran. Though they changed the payment. There must be some other deal to compensate French.

 

[apdst]

The statement was made at a European Ministers meeting for a reason. Britain and France are seeking extra support for a further 10 missions per day from their European NATO allies. They are aware that the Americantards are unwilling, which will make President Obama politically reluctant to do so.

France and Britain can't escalate their operations so as to put another 10 sorties in the air, a day?

That confirms that if there was a real war, France and Britain would be the last ones we could count to help fight it.

This is why it is so important that the United States maintain such a strong military.

 

[Manc Skipper]

France and Britain are committed elsewhere too. Britain not least in support of America's wars of choice, and France in other UN commitments in Africa.

 

[TOJ]

Where is Canada? I thought they sent their plane. :tink:

.

 

[apdst]

France and Britain are committed elsewhere too. Britain not least in support of America's wars of choice, and France in other UN commitments in Africa.

They're no more committed than the United States. I think it's damn sad that both of them, combined, can't handle Libya without help.

 

[pragmatic]

The statement was made at a European Ministers meeting for a reason. Britain and France are seeking extra support for a further 10 missions per day from their European NATO allies. They are aware that the Americantards are unwilling, which will make President Obama politically reluctant to do so.

"the americantards are unwilling"??? Not sure what the current counts are, but the initial NATO action on Libya consisted of the launching of 200 or so guided missiles. All but a couple of which were US military. Am thinking that America has ponied up more than their share up to this point, eh....??



.

 

[Mayor Snorkum]

France and Britain can't escalate their operations so as to put another 10 sorties in the air, a day?

That confirms that if there was a real war, France and Britain would be the last ones we could count to help fight it.

This is why it is so important that the United States maintain such a strong military.

Its' why the United States has to get out of NATO. Just in case anybody missed it, the Soviet Union died twenty years ago.

 

[apdst]

Its' why the United States has to get out of NATO. Just in case anybody missed it, the Soviet Union died twenty years ago.

In case anyone hasn't noticed, there are antagonists that have replaced the Soviet Union.

 

[Kandahar]

The statement was made at a European Ministers meeting for a reason. Britain and France are seeking extra support for a further 10 missions per day from their European NATO allies. They are aware that the Americantards are unwilling, which will make President Obama politically reluctant to do so.

Right, because it's such a wonderful idea to intervene in someone else's civil war when you have absolutely no idea who the rebels actually are. It's such a wonderful idea to intervene on "humanitarian" grounds with the goal of prolonging and encouraging a civil war. It's such a wonderful idea to try to depose a dictator who hasn't done **** to the West since at least 2003. And it'll be a breeze! How is that working out so far?

 

[katsung47]

It’s obviously a pre-planned plot. The rebels even don’t have a formal government. First thing of all is to form an oil company so they can deal. That's what caused the war.


quote, "Libyan Rebel Council Forms Oil Company to Replace Qaddafi’s
By Bill Varner - Mar 22, 2011

Libyan rebels in Benghazi said they have created a new national oil company to replace the corporation controlled by leader Muammar Qaddafi whose assets were frozen by the United Nations Security Council.

The Transitional National Council released a statement announcing the decision made at a March 19 meeting to establish the “Libyan Oil Company as supervisory authority on oil production and policies in the country, based temporarily in Benghazi, and the appointment of an interim director general” of the company.

Libyan Rebel Council Forms Oil Company to Replace Qaddafi

 

[katsung47]

Do you think those rebel are bankers, or oil industry CEO? Or rather, a puppet group work for the CIA. Is that easy to establish a Central Bank, selling oil? Where do those experts, capitals come from? Or it is just all planed in advance?

“Libyan Rebels” Create Central Bank, Oil Company
Alex Newman

As analysts debate possible motives behind President Obama’s United Nations-backed military intervention in Libya, one angle that has received attention in recent days is the rebels’ seemingly odd decision to establish a new central bank to replace dictator Muammar Gadhafi's state-owned monetary authority — possibly the first time in history that revolutionaries have taken time out from an ongoing life-and-death battle to create such an institution, according to observers.

In a statement released last week, the rebels reported on the results of a meeting held on March 19. Among other things, the supposed rag-tag revolutionaries announced the “[d]esignation of the Central Bank of Benghazi as a monetary authority competent in monetary policies in Libya and appointment of a Governor to the Central Bank of Libya, with a temporary headquarters in Benghazi.”

The Gadhafi regime’s central bank — unlike the U.S. Federal Reserve, which is owned by private shareholders — was among the few central banks in the world that was entirely state-owned. At the moment, it is unclear exactly who owns the rebel’s central bank or how it will be governed.

The so-called Interim Transitional National Council, the rebels’ self-appointed new government for Libya purporting to be the “sole legitimate representative of Libyan People,” also trumpeted the creation of a new “Libyan Oil Company” based in the rebel stronghold city of Benghazi. The North African nation, of course, has the continent’s largest proven oil reserves.

The U.S. government and the U.N. have both recently announced that the rebels would be free to sell oil under their control — if they do it without Gaddafi’s National Oil Corporation. And the first shipments are set to start next week, according to news reports citing a spokesman for the rebels.

But the creation of a new central bank, even more so than the new national oil regime, left analysts scratching their heads. “I have never before heard of a central bank being created in just a matter of weeks out of a popular uprising,” noted Robert Wenzel in an analysis for the Economic Policy Journal. “This suggests we have a bit more than a rag tag bunch of rebels running around and that there are some pretty sophisticated influences.”



Global Research, April 14, 2011
“Libyan Rebels” Create Central Bank, Oil Company

 

[katsung47]

They bring war to Libya, because it breaks up their propaganda? How could people of backward country under a dictator live a better life than “democratic Western”? Or just for its oil?

Life in Libya:

• GDP per capita - $ 14,192.
• for each family member in the state pays $ 1,000 a year subsidy.
• Unemployment - 730 $.
• Salary Nurse - $ 1,000.
• For every newborn is paid $ 7,000.
• Suite as a gift $ 64,000 to buy an apartment.
• The discovery of personal business one-time financial assistance - $ 20,000.
• Major taxes and levies prohibited.
• Education and medicine are free.
• Education and Internships abroad - at government expense.
• Chain stores for large families with symbolic prices of basic foodstuffs.
• For the sale of products past their expiry date - large fines and detention units spetspolitsii.
• Some pharmacies - with free dispensing.
• counterfeiting of medicines - the death penalty.
• rents - is absent.
• Pay for electricity for the population is missing.
• Sales and use of alcohol is prohibited - "prohibition".
• Loans for buying a car and an apartment - no interest.
• Real estate services are prohibited.
• Buying a car up to 50% paid by the state militia fighters - 65%.
• Gasoline is cheaper than water. 1 liter of gasoline - $ 0.14.

Living in Libya under Gaddafi - Political Forum

 

[Bluespade]

In case anyone hasn't noticed, there are antagonists that have replaced the Soviet Union.

I'm not sure there are any antagonist that actually pose the same threat that the Soviet Union and the Warsaw Pact posed.

 

[ElCid]

I'm not sure there are any antagonist that actually pose the same threat that the Soviet Union and the Warsaw Pact posed.

Anybody with nukes.

 

[MSgt]

The statement was made at a European Ministers meeting for a reason. Britain and France are seeking extra support for a further 10 missions per day from their European NATO allies. They are aware that the Americantards are unwilling, which will make President Obama politically reluctant to do so.

Well, the "Americantards" are currently doing most of the work to include the actual intel and leadership behind the scenes. I believe 90 percent of the military action has been conducted by nations outside of the European sloth zone. Perhaps the "Americantards" are fed up with Europeans sitting at our table without earning the privilege. After sitting out the Cold War to defend western Europe, doing nothing during the "Coalition" that was the Gulf War, ignoring genocide in the Balkans (where World War I began), and doing the bare minimum in Afghanistan, perhaps it is time that Europeans stood up and discovered their balls.

Why don't we go ahead and throw in the hundreds of thousands of tortured in Tunisia by the French, the disgusting moral support offerred to the Tunisian dictator in December, and force France to finance and muscle their own efforts in their former colonies. Because Americans are fed up cleaning up the European colonial messes left in their wakes. Libya is yet another coloinial mess Europeans expect Americans to get dirty in for them.

 

[ecofarm]

I think NATO and other countries should honestly just stay out of other peoples civil wars....

Even when a 42 year dictator is bombing his own people, specifically targetting civilians, with the country's Air Force?

You think the world should just stand aside and let that happen? It's as if there is no point at which the slaughter becomes so horrific that your own humanity demands you act. You could stand aside and watch anything, huh. In the name of sovereignty?

It's amazing how some people can become a fanatic nationalist (supporting sovereignty at all cost) when it serves their actual worldview. What happened to the global community, Socialist? What are you, some kind of socialist who is pro-decentralization? How does that work? You want to give most of our income to help poor people, but not when those poor people are being bombed by their decades-long dictator on the other side of the world? Then you suddenly think that poor people can take care of themselves. How convenient. I wonder why.

 

[MSgt]

I think NATO and other countries should honestly just stay out of other peoples civil wars....

Yeah we should wait until those civil wars cross borders in the form of refugees and terror so that more nations are intimately involved and the issue is far more dangerous and expensive. This is not the past where we could watch unchecked opression, civil war and genocide dominoe into mass wars that suck us in. This is the future. In an escallating globalized world where economies and trades rely upon regional stability like never before, along with the fact that information is blazing across the world at never before speeds, we can no longer get away with secretly supporting a dictator to "keep the peace." Democracy is the future. In a world where 189 democracies have been created since 1900 is there any wonder why dictators like Mugabe and Mubarak pretend to hold elections?

On another note, this rise against the oppressor throughout the MENA region in the hopes to create democracy is absolutely what this "War on Terror" is about. Have you honestly fooled yourself into thinking that mass Islamic terror was going to end just because a scared old man was being hunted? This has always been regional and generational. You know when people ignorantly stated that we couldn't "bomb" them into democracy? Well, that was them being stupid and near sighted because all they could see was Iraq and Afghanistan. They lacked vision and their racially bigotted outlook towards this region insisted that they couldn't do it at all. The mass movement going on all over is exactly what was eventually going to happen because in the end people are people and they all want what is best for their families. Dictators are the past. And Americans, especially Europeans, can't get away with demanding apathy and a stand offish stature after hundreds of years of colonial and Cold War disruptions, meddling and maintaining.

On another note, American security has always relied upon the stability of foriegn regions. It was true when we had to go out and free the Mediterranean from piracy (Barbary Pirates Wars) so that we could get our trades through when Europeans were more than willing to simply pay ransoms. It was true when Europeans created a World War that eventually threatened our trades and despite our efforts against, got sucked in. It was true when Europe again started a World War and couldn't deal with their own mess in their own lands (and stolen territories elsewhere) and eventually threatened our Atlantic trades and wound up sucking us back across the ocean. Why do you think "Yugoslavia" was so important? Did we really want to watch Europe ignore it until it eventually created another unstable situation that would suck us in when it was deadlier and more expensive? And it is true today. For over two decades we ignored the MENA as we pretended all those Cold War dictators were going to forever "keep the peace" by forcing the tribes (that should never have been forced together behind bad unnatural borders by Europeans in the first place) to behave under oppression and brutality so that we can get our oil without too much disruption. We pretended that kicking Saddam Hussein back into Iraq was a victory, because in the temporary end we maintained a sort of stability by maintaining his throne in Baghdad. Never mind that thousands starved to death during our humane UN sanctions (military as a last resort and all). Never mind that this so called "stability" was exponentially creating more and more bad blood and hatred towards the U.S., which is the scapegoat for these dictators and their hand picked Mullahs. Never mind that when most Muslims in the MENA region speak bad on the U.S. that they are mostly dissapointed in our two faced treatment of them (you know...preaching about liberty, democracy, and religious freedom but doing nothing to balance the power away from "our" former dictators.) And now as they rise up and do exactly as we need them to do in order to create a true stability in this very important region of the world Americans choose to state things like "none of our business" and "stay out of it?" Well, we've been in their business since we inherited this wrecked out world from the Europeans who made it wrong. We don't get to pretend otherwise today as if we bear no responsibility to live up to our rhetoric. More and more Americans are sounding like Europeans as they deny their past and their sense of duty.

The most powerful nation in history with the most powerful military in history with the most powerful non-military tools in it's arsenol chooses to watch unhealthy regions go to hell in the hopes that it won't affect us? This defies history. Way to ensure a deadlier mission for the troop when mulitple nations are sucked into the fray.

"We the People" mean that we need to start reacting and supporting the globe's people, not their decrepit governments who insist on an America that supports them. And decades after providing weapons and finances to maintain stability in this region means that we bear responsibility to the people underneath we pretended didn't exist. You know...the kind of people that create terror organizations that mostly slaughter their own fellow Muslims, but occassionally murder our troops abroad and maybe knock down a building or two in New York. Or do we still want to believe that hunting down and killing Bin Laden solved the problem?

 

[MSgt]

It’s obviously a pre-planned plot.

Only to those who need their lack of morality validated by seeking any greedy conspiracy to illigetimize an effort. Of coure, in the mean time Libyans are trying to get out from under a dictator, but **** them, right? We prefer our twisted hand wringing to the wider issue at hand.

You see lines on a map. This is convenient so that you can separate these countries and pretend that one has nothing to do with the other. This also allows you the ease for which you can dig up conspiracy and intrigue. Somehow there's dastardly business going on.

Here is fact number 1: Always in every single war and conflict, will there be people and corporations there to make money. Get over it. If you stop your focus right here then you will always miss the greater picture.

Here is fact number 2: To the people in this region who's tribes are divided around unnatural borders created by Europeans and who's tribes are shoved together and forced to tolerate, these lines on a map do not separate them as much as you think. This is why the Arab Sunni Tribe (meaning the religious biggie) from Libya, Tunisia, Egypt, Yemen, Syria, etc. are all chanting the same thing one by one. What's good for the tribe is good for the tribe and they finally recognize it. Are you really trying to pretend that local business mafias and absent local corporations are individually setting out to hatch plots? Once again, don't let fact number 1 blind you from greater happenings. A oil rich Middle Eastern/North African region (MENA) is far more stable under democracies than under dictators always under threat from the people and from neighbors. And maybe some people along the way will make things better for themselves along the way, huh?

I wish to feed my daughter a good meal. Does this mean that secretly I just want to look like a good Dad? Never mind that my daughter is fed?

 

[Infinite Chaos]

France and Britain can't escalate their operations so as to put another 10 sorties in the air, a day?

You need to read and understand what Mancs Skipper said about the request for extra sorties. They can't just escalate without the other members agreeing.

That confirms that if there was a real war, France and Britain would be the last ones we could count to help fight it.

This is why it is so important that the United States maintain such a strong military.

Please remember not to invite us to spill our boys blood alongside US troops next time you have a war then. Iraq, Afghanistan etc - we should have let you guys go it alone.

 

[American]

The statement was made at a European Ministers meeting for a reason. Britain and France are seeking extra support for a further 10 missions per day from their European NATO allies. They are aware that the Americantards are unwilling, which will make President Obama politically reluctant to do so.

You got a lot of nerve given the amount of support the US has given NATO since its inception. The UK is the only NATO country over there that deserves an ounce of respect for their role in NATO.

 

[Nanten Janubi]

You need to read and understand what Mancs Skipper said about the request for extra sorties. They can't just escalate without the other members agreeing.



Please remember not to invite us to spill our boys blood alongside US troops next time you have a war then. Iraq, Afghanistan etc - we should have let you guys go it alone.

I don't know what that has to do with what he said.