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Thread: Trump to meet with sponsor of Arizona 'birther bill'

  1. #51
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    Re: Trump to meet with sponsor of Arizona 'birther bill'

    Quote Originally Posted by Apuzo View Post

    By what law? The British Act of 1948. He was born a dual citizen as his website explained.
    Ummm, we're not governed by British law. Indeed, many brave people fought and many brave people died, for that cause.

    That aside, it was known before he was elected that he was born with dual citizenship. Yet he was still allowed to run and to serve as president because there is no legal definition in U.S. law which precludes a person born with dual citizenship the birth right of being a natural born citizen.

    Quote Originally Posted by Apuzo View Post

    Here's the bottom line. He ran a cleverly worded campaign that duped the voters. He took advantage of their limited knowledge of citizenship laws and Supreme Court cases on natural born citizenship. He took advantage of their lack of knowledge of the intent of the founders for adding natural born citizen to Article 2 Section 1 of the Constitution.
    That is complete and utter nonsense. Believe it or not, there are some very intelligent people in this country and there are some very savvy legal scholars who are familiar with citizenship laws and Supreme Court cases, including the 9 members of that bench. Yet no one in possession of such knowledge and in a position to act on it even suggested what you are claiming.

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    Re: Trump to meet with sponsor of Arizona 'birther bill'

    Quote Originally Posted by Sheik Yerbuti View Post
    Ummm, there is no law anywhere in U.S. code stating that. Even worse for your argument is that in 2008 when Obama was running for president, everyone knew his father was a British subject and that Obama was born with dual citizenship. Despite that, he was still allowed to run and now allowed to serve as president. Therefore, you are wrong about the U.S. not considering people born with dual citizenships as natural born citizens.

    Item (b) does not apply to Obama because late and delayed birth certificates are marked as such. Obama's is not. Item (c) does not apply to Obama because his birth records were filed 4 days after he was born.


    I see ... you're citing a law even though you don't know exactly how it read in 1961?? What can be assumed is that it didn't read exactly like the 1982 revision. Which means citing it is dishonest since you don't actually know what was in it.
    I know how to read the law. I just gave you the law from the 1955 Territorial Act pertaining to certificates in Hawaii including the revised statutes in 82 that still effected people born in 61. Obama's short form doesn't have that info but the long form will. That is why he needs to release it.

    On the other hand, answer me honestly. Do you think the founders when adopting the constitutions natural born citizen clause actually wanted a dual citizen with British Nationality with split allegiances as their future president and commander of the armies? After all, they just finished a war with the British. Think about that.

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    Re: Trump to meet with sponsor of Arizona 'birther bill'

    Quote Originally Posted by Sheik Yerbuti View Post
    [COLOR=blue]Ummm, we're not governed by British law. Indeed, many brave people fought and many brave people died, for that cause.
    So why did Obama feel compelled to state that his birth status was governed by the British Nationality Act of 1948 rather than the 14th Amendment?

    “As a Kenyan native, Barack Obama Sr. was a British subject whose citizenship status was governed by The British Nationality Act of 1948. That same act governed the status of Obama Sr.‘s children.”

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    Re: Trump to meet with sponsor of Arizona 'birther bill'

    Quote Originally Posted by Apuzo View Post

    I know how to read the law. I just gave you the law from the 1955 Territorial Act pertaining to certificates in Hawaii including the revised statutes in 82 that still effected people born in 61. Obama's short form doesn't have that info but the long form will. That is why he needs to release it.
    §338-17.8 is not relevant to Obama since his records were filed in August of 1961 and §338-17.8 became law in 1982.

    Quote Originally Posted by Apuzo View Post

    On the other hand, answer me honestly. Do you think the founders when adopting the constitutions natural born citizen clause actually wanted a dual citizen with British Nationality with split allegiances as their future president and commander of the armies? After all, they just finished a war with the British. Think about that.
    George Washington was born a British subject. Think about that.

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    Re: Trump to meet with sponsor of Arizona 'birther bill'

    Quote Originally Posted by Apuzo View Post

    So why did Obama feel compelled to state that his birth status was governed by the British Nationality Act of 1948 rather than the 14th Amendment?

    “As a Kenyan native, Barack Obama Sr. was a British subject whose citizenship status was governed by The British Nationality Act of 1948. That same act governed the status of Obama Sr.‘s children.”
    When did Obama make that declaration?

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    Re: Trump to meet with sponsor of Arizona 'birther bill'

    Quote Originally Posted by Sheik Yerbuti View Post
    §338-17.8 is not relevant to Obama since his records were filed in August of 1961 and §338-17.8 became law in 1982.


    George Washington was born a British subject. Think about that.
    LOL....What do you think the purpose of the grandfather clause in Article 2 Section 1 was for?

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    Re: Trump to meet with sponsor of Arizona 'birther bill'

    Quote Originally Posted by Sheik Yerbuti View Post
    When did Obama make that declaration?
    In that paragraph I posted. Obama admits his birth status was governed by the United Kingdom. I think it’s very important to note that Obama himself gave preference to the United Kingdom in his statement at Fight The Smears. Notice that he didn’t say his birth status was governed by both United Kingdom and the US. Obama chose to give preference to his father’s nationality by stating that his birth status was directly tied to his father and not his mother. John Bingham, the architect of the 14th Amendment stated this on the House Floor in defining natural born citizenship:

    “Every human being born within the jurisdiction of the United States of parents not owing allegiance to any foreign sovereignty is, in the language of your Constitution itself, a natural born citizen.” (Cong. Globe, 39th, 1st Sess., 1291 (1866))

    What country was Obama's allegiance too Sheik?

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    Re: Trump to meet with sponsor of Arizona 'birther bill'

    Quote Originally Posted by Marshabar View Post
    He wasn't able to find the birth certificate. I guess Obama was no help at all.

    1. Barack Obama was adopted by Lolo Soetero.

    2. In Hawaii name change in the adoption is mandatory.

    3. The original birth certificate is replaced with a new birth certificate bearing the child's new name.

    4. If there is a birth certificate for Barack Obama in Hawaii, that birth certificate bears the name Soetero.


    That, to me, is confusing enough an issue to move someone who has perhaps chosen to adopt his old name but never actually gone through the legal process to change it, to cover up his original birth certificate. The one that gives his name as Soetero.

    We have had adoptions in my family. I know what happens to the birth certificates. They are changed.
    Going with the adoption theory, even if true it still wouldn't disqualify President Obama from being President because he'd still have been born in the U.S. by atleast one U.S. citizen parent, thereby making him a "natural-born citizen". Regardless, it would seem that Dr. Chiyome Fukino, the former director of Hawaii's Department of Health, has come out once again publically reaffirming that she has, in fact, seen the official "long-form" birth certificate and that it safe and secure on the first floor of the health department. From the article (paraphrased):

    [..]when asked about Trump's recent comments, Dr. Chiyome Fukino stated:

    The first is that the original so-called "long form" birth certificate — described by Hawaiian officials as a "record of live birth" — absolutely exists, located in a bound volume in a file cabinet on the first floor of the state Department of Health. Fukimo said she has personally inspected it — twice. The first time was in late October 2008, during the closing days of the presidential campaign, when the communications director for the state's then Republican governor, Linda Lingle (who appointed Fukino) asked if she could make a public statement in response to claims then circulating on the Internet that Obama was actually born in Kenya. Before she would do so, Fukino said, she wanted to inspect the files — and did so, taking with her the state official in charge of vital records. She found the original birth record, properly numbered, half typed and half handwritten, and signed by the doctor who delivered Obama, located in the files. She then put out a public statement asserting to the document's validity. She later put out another public statement in July 2009 — after reviewing the original birth record a second time.
    So, there you have it, Donald Trump. If you're special investigators want to know where they can find the President's "long-form" birth certificate, you along with the rest of the country if not the world now know exactly where you can find it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Apuzo View Post
    In that paragraph I posted. Obama admits his birth status was governed by the United Kingdom. I think it’s very important to note that Obama himself gave preference to the United Kingdom in his statement at Fight The Smears. Notice that he didn’t say his birth status was governed by both United Kingdom and the US. Obama chose to give preference to his father’s nationality by stating that his birth status was directly tied to his father and not his mother. John Bingham, the architect of the 14th Amendment stated this on the House Floor in defining natural born citizenship:

    “Every human being born within the jurisdiction of the United States of parents not owing allegiance to any foreign sovereignty is, in the language of your Constitution itself, a natural born citizen.” (Cong. Globe, 39th, 1st Sess., 1291 (1866))

    What country was Obama's allegiance too Sheik?
    Correct. President Obama did admit that at the time of his birth his father was subject to the British crown because Kenya was a British colony at the time his father was born and, as such, Obama Sr was a British subject. Theoretically, that made Obama Jr and dual citizen at birth. But since Kenya was granted their independence from Britan somewhere around 1984 and the President as a civilian never declared his British citizenship, such "duality" expired. Factcheck.org addressed this issue at length some time ago.
    Last edited by Objective Voice; 04-11-11 at 06:43 PM.

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    Re: Trump to meet with sponsor of Arizona 'birther bill'

    Quote Originally Posted by Apuzo View Post

    LOL....What do you think the purpose of the grandfather clause in Article 2 Section 1 was for?
    Guess you didn't think about it.

    ... so I'll explain it to ya ... the grandfather clause was to accomodate potential presidents who were born British subjects at that time. According to your logic, the Founders shouldn't have allowed them to be president because they were born British subjects. Instead, the Founders decided to allow that. So why you think the Founders would be against an American born citizen who holds dual citizenship is beyond me, but suffice it to say, the founders weren't and there is no law in the books which state otherwise.

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    Re: Trump to meet with sponsor of Arizona 'birther bill'

    Quote Originally Posted by Sheik Yerbuti View Post
    Guess you didn't think about it.

    ... so I'll explain it to ya ... the grandfather clause was to accomodate potential presidents who were born British subjects at that time. According to your logic, the Founders shouldn't have allowed them to be president because they were born British subjects. Instead, the Founders decided to allow that. So why you think the Founders would be against an American born citizen who holds dual citizenship is beyond me, but suffice it to say, the founders weren't and there is no law in the books which state otherwise.
    The founders wanted a president with sole allegiance to the United States with no ties to foreign governments so a usurpation of the office wouldn't transpire. They were thinking ahead. Every president post grandfather clause starting with the first natural born president Martin Van Buren have been born to 'TWO' U.S. citizen parents. Wilsons and Hoovers mothers were foreign born but they achieved U.S. citizenship through derivative marriage to their US born husbands before Woodrow and Herbert were born. That made them natural born citizens born to TWO U.S. citizen parents. Chester Arthur had doubts but it was never proven.


    Do you agree with the Father of the 14th Amendment John Bingham defining natural born citizen as this?

    “Every human being born within the jurisdiction of the United States of parents not owing allegiance to any foreign sovereignty is, in the language of your Constitution itself, a natural born citizen.” (Cong. Globe, 39th, 1st Sess., 1291 (1866))


    Did you ever read John Jays letter to George Washington when framing the Presidential Clause? If not you need too. Google it.
    Last edited by Apuzo; 04-11-11 at 07:07 PM.

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