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Thread: Trump to meet with sponsor of Arizona 'birther bill'

  1. #31
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    Re: Trump to meet with sponsor of Arizona 'birther bill'

    Quote Originally Posted by Marshabar View Post
    He was adopted by Lolo Soetero. In Hawaii name change after adoption is mandatory. His original birth certificate would have had the name Obama, his new birth certificate would have the name Soetero. Of course it would. The original birth certificate is completely replaced by the new certificate with the new name after an adoption.


    Unless Barack Soetero legally changed his name his name is still Soetero. I'm not even sure if a legal name change changes the birth certificate itself. I do know an adoption does.
    I look forward to see the evidence you provide which proves Obama was a) legally adopted; and b) legally had his name changed.

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    Re: Trump to meet with sponsor of Arizona 'birther bill'

    Trump reminds me a lot of Mario Cuomo from 20 years ago. Gimmicky and overstepping his bounds.

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    Re: Trump to meet with sponsor of Arizona 'birther bill'

    Quote Originally Posted by Sheik Yerbuti View Post
    Those rules are 30 years old and outdated. For example, it states, "Standard copies of vital records may be prepared by photographic, dry copy reproduction process, or by typing."

    That has since been replaced with §338-13:

    §338-13 Certified copies. (a) Subject to the requirements of sections 338-16, 338-17, and 338-18, the department of health shall, upon request, furnish to any applicant a certified copy of any certificate, or the contents of any certificate, or any part thereof.

    (b) Copies of the contents of any certificate on file in the department, certified by the department shall be considered for all purposes the same as the original, subject to the requirements of sections 338-16, 338-17, and 338-18.

    (c) Copies may be made by photography, dry copy reproduction, typing, computer printout or other process approved by the director of health. [L 1949, c 327, §17; RL 1955, §57-16; am L Sp 1959 2d, c 1, §19; HRS §338-13; am L 1978, c 49, §1]

    Another obsolete rule from that document states applications for copies must be made in writing. Hawaiian's can now apply online to receive a copy.

    But mostly, I noticed you ignored this part completely:


    The first is that the original so-called "long form" birth certificate — described by Hawaiian officials as a "record of live birth" — absolutely exists, located in a bound volume in a file cabinet on the first floor of the state Department of Health. Fukimo said she has personally inspected it — twice. The first time was in late October 2008, during the closing days of the presidential campaign, when the communications director for the state's then Republican governor, Linda Lingle (who appointed Fukino) asked if she could make a public statement in response to claims then circulating on the Internet that Obama was actually born in Kenya.

    There's a long form on file -- the only way that's possible is for Obama to have been born in Hawaii.
    You do know that in 1961 Hawaii accepted foreign born births and gave them birth certificates? Also the Hawaii official lied. He said you couldn't get photocopies of your records. The law says otherwise as noted in the statutes. They flat out lied. Obama, if born in Hawaii is still not a natural born citizen.

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    Re: Trump to meet with sponsor of Arizona 'birther bill'

    Quote Originally Posted by Apuzo View Post
    You do know that in 1961 Hawaii accepted foreign born births and gave them birth certificates? Also the Hawaii official lied. He said you couldn't get photocopies of your records. The law says otherwise as noted in the statutes. They flat out lied. Obama, if born in Hawaii is still not a natural born citizen.
    Prove anything you just said.

    I dare you.

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    Re: Trump to meet with sponsor of Arizona 'birther bill'

    Sorry if this is a repeat.

    Think about it: when the adoption went through, the law required Obama’s birth certificate to be changed to reflect his new name, which became, and remains, Barry Soetoro. So if Abercrombie went looking for anything in the Hall of Records with “Barack Hussein Obama, Jr.” on it, he wouldn’t find anything besides those scribbled, handwritten notations in the archives (since those would not have been changed with the adoption, as who would have thought to do that?). The actual birth certificate says “Barry Soetoro” on it.

    That’s why Abercrombie couldn’t locate it.

    And why Obama won’t release it.
    HAWAII GROUND REPORT: Could Hawaiian Governor Neil Abercrombie not be as incompetent and foolish as he appears, but orchestrating a deliberate birth certificate recovery dead end to cover his own papakole? UPDATED: Mystery solved! Reason Obama will n
    Last edited by Marshabar; 04-11-11 at 02:03 PM.

  6. #36
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    Re: Trump to meet with sponsor of Arizona 'birther bill'

    Quote Originally Posted by Sheik Yerbuti View Post
    I look forward to see the evidence you provide which proves Obama was a) legally adopted; and b) legally had his name changed.
    Interesting about Soetero/Obama's records. . .

    The fact is, the birth certificate controversy is only the beginning of the presidential mystery. There is so much we don’t know for certain about President Obama. Inexplicably but intriguigingly, he has failed to produce his bona fides, while the media (and the White House media in particular), who could ask for them, don’t care, or don’t want to care.

    I culled from John’s affadavit what is undoubtedly an incomplete list of the Obama documents that we, the people, have just never gotten a look at due to Obama’s decision not to let us look.

    Sure, there’s

    (1) the original, long-form 1961 Hawaiian birth certificate. Then there’s:

    2) Marriage license between Obama’s father (Barak Sr.) and mother (Stanley Ann Dunham) — not found, not released

    3) Obama’s baptism records — sealed

    4) Obama’s adoption records — sealed

    5) Records of Obama’s and his mother’s reptriation as US citizens on return from Indonesia — not found, not released

    6) Name change (Barry Sotero to Barack Hussein Obama) records — not found, not released

    7) Noelani Elementary School (Hawaii) — not released

    8) Punahou School financial aid or school records — not released

    9) Occidental College financial aid records — not released. (These records were, however, subpoenaed but Obama lawyers succeeded in quashing the subpoena in court. No other Occi records have been released.)

    10) Columbia College records — not released

    11) Columbia senior thesis — not released

    12) Harvard Law School records (not mentioned below, but not released)

    13) Obama’s law client list — sealed

    14) Obama’s files from career as an Illinois State Senator — sealed

    15) Obama’s record with Illinois State Bar Association — sealed

    16) Obama’s medical records — not released

    17) Obama’s passport records — not released

    That’s a lot of records sealed and not released. But there’s much more to “the case.” Read it and see what you as an American citizen think….
    Obama’s Mysterious Past | Conservative Heritage Times
    Last edited by Marshabar; 04-11-11 at 02:10 PM.

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    Re: Trump to meet with sponsor of Arizona 'birther bill'

    Quote Originally Posted by Jetboogieman View Post
    Prove anything you just said.

    I dare you.
    You dare me? Ok then. Well first of all, Obama's birth was governed by the British Nationality Act of 1948 due to his fathers British Nationality. That made him a dual citizen at birth and not a natural born citizen which the founders wanted as president in Article 2 Section 1. This was stated in a paragraph on Obama's own website Fight The Smears and FactCheck.org:

    "When Barack Obama Jr. was born on Aug. 4,1961, in Honolulu, Kenya was a British colony, still part of the United Kingdom’s dwindling empire. As a Kenyan native, Barack Obama Sr. was a British subject whose citizenship status was governed by The British Nationality Act of 1948. That same act governed the status of Obama Sr.‘s children.

    The last sentence says it all and kills any notion that Obama was born a natural born citizen with sole allegiance to the United States even while being born in Hawaii allegedly.







    Now on the birth certificates. Generally, folks don't know that Hawaii law, even in 1961, provided for multiple kinds of birth records, most of which are not what people think of when they think of birth certificates. The following is a description of those, including certificates for people not born in Hawaii.

    1. In the State of Hawaii, back in 1961, there were three different birth certificates that were obtainable:

    a. If the birth was attended by a physician or mid wife, the attending medical professional was required to certify to the Department of Health the facts of the birth date, location, parents’ identities and other information. (See Section 57-8 & 9 of the Territorial Public Health Statistics Act in the 1955 Revised Laws of Hawaii which was in effect in 1961).

    b. In 1961, if a person was born in Hawaii but not attended by a physician or mid wife, then, up to the first birthday of the child, an adult could, upon testimony, file a “Delayed Certificate”, which required endorsement on the Delayed Certificate of a summary statement of the evidence submitted in support of the acceptance for delayed filing, which evidence must be kept in a special permanent file. The statute provided that the probative value of the Delayed Certificate must be determined by the judicial or administrative body or official before whom the certificate is offered as evidence. (See Section 57-18, 19 & 20 of the Territorial Public Health Statistics Act in the 1955 Revised Laws of Hawaii which was in effect in 1961).

    c. If a child born in Hawaii, for whom no physician or mid wife filed a certificate of live birth, and for whom no Delayed Certificate was filed before the first birthday, then a Certificate of Hawaiian Birth could be issued upon testimony of an adult including the subject person) if the Lieutenant Governor was satisfied that a person was born in Hawaii, provided that the person had attained the age of one year. (See Section 57-40 of the Territorial Public Health Statistics Act in the 1955 Revised Laws of Hawaii which was in effect in 1961).

    2. In 1982, the vital records law was amended to create a fourth kind of birth certificate for children born outside of the Territory or State of Hawaii. HRS Chapter 338 was amended to add a new section authorizing the Director of the Department of Health to issue a birth certificate for a person NOT born in Hawaii either as a Territory or State, upon sufficient proof that the legal parents of such individual had declared the Territory or State of Hawaii as their legal residence for at least one year immediately preceding the birth of such child.

    3. The language of the statute clearly applies to births in the days of the Territory of Hawaii, so also births in 1961.
    Last edited by Apuzo; 04-11-11 at 02:22 PM.

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    Re: Trump to meet with sponsor of Arizona 'birther bill'

    Quote Originally Posted by Apuzo View Post
    You dare me? Ok then. Well first of all, Obama's birth was governed by the British Nationality Act of 1948 due to his fathers British Nationality. That made him a dual citizen at birth and not a natural born citizen which the founders wanted as president in Article 2 Section 1. This was stated in a paragraph on Obama's own website Fight The Smears and FactCheck.org:

    "When Barack Obama Jr. was born on Aug. 4,1961, in Honolulu, Kenya was a British colony, still part of the United Kingdom’s dwindling empire. As a Kenyan native, Barack Obama Sr. was a British subject whose citizenship status was governed by The British Nationality Act of 1948. That same act governed the status of Obama Sr.‘s children.

    The last sentence says it all and kills any notion that Obama was born a natural born citizen with sole allegiance to the United States even while being born in Hawaii allegedly.







    Now on the birth certificates. Generally, folks don't know that Hawaii law, even in 1961, provided for multiple kinds of birth records, most of which are not what people think of when they think of birth certificates. The following is a description of those, including certificates for people not born in Hawaii.

    1. In the State of Hawaii, back in 1961, there were three different birth certificates that were obtainable:

    a. If the birth was attended by a physician or mid wife, the attending medical professional was required to certify to the Department of Health the facts of the birth date, location, parents’ identities and other information. (See Section 57-8 & 9 of the Territorial Public Health Statistics Act in the 1955 Revised Laws of Hawaii which was in effect in 1961).

    b. In 1961, if a person was born in Hawaii but not attended by a physician or mid wife, then, up to the first birthday of the child, an adult could, upon testimony, file a “Delayed Certificate”, which required endorsement on the Delayed Certificate of a summary statement of the evidence submitted in support of the acceptance for delayed filing, which evidence must be kept in a special permanent file. The statute provided that the probative value of the Delayed Certificate must be determined by the judicial or administrative body or official before whom the certificate is offered as evidence. (See Section 57-18, 19 & 20 of the Territorial Public Health Statistics Act in the 1955 Revised Laws of Hawaii which was in effect in 1961).

    c. If a child born in Hawaii, for whom no physician or mid wife filed a certificate of live birth, and for whom no Delayed Certificate was filed before the first birthday, then a Certificate of Hawaiian Birth could be issued upon testimony of an adult including the subject person) if the Lieutenant Governor was satisfied that a person was born in Hawaii, provided that the person had attained the age of one year. (See Section 57-40 of the Territorial Public Health Statistics Act in the 1955 Revised Laws of Hawaii which was in effect in 1961).

    2. In 1982, the vital records law was amended to create a fourth kind of birth certificate for children born outside of the Territory or State of Hawaii. HRS Chapter 338 was amended to add a new section authorizing the Director of the Department of Health to issue a birth certificate for a person NOT born in Hawaii either as a Territory or State, upon sufficient proof that the legal parents of such individual had declared the Territory or State of Hawaii as their legal residence for at least one year immediately preceding the birth of such child.

    3. The language of the statute clearly applies to births in the days of the Territory of Hawaii, so also births in 1961.
    Apuzo, do you have a link for this material?

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    Re: Trump to meet with sponsor of Arizona 'birther bill'

    Quote Originally Posted by Marshabar View Post
    Apuzo, do you have a link for this material?
    Yes.

    CHAPTER 338

    ■§338-13 Certified copies
    ■§338-15 Late or altered certificates
    ■§338-16 Procedure concerning late and altered birth certificates
    ■§338-17.8 Certificates for children born out of State
    ■§338-20.5 Adoption; foreign born persons


    Also it is well known that they issue multiple certificates

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    Re: Trump to meet with sponsor of Arizona 'birther bill'

    Quote Originally Posted by Apuzo View Post
    Yes.

    CHAPTER 338

    ■§338-13 Certified copies
    ■§338-15 Late or altered certificates
    ■§338-16 Procedure concerning late and altered birth certificates
    ■§338-17.8 Certificates for children born out of State
    ■§338-20.5 Adoption; foreign born persons


    Also it is well known that they issue multiple certificates
    Thank you.

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