Page 8 of 10 FirstFirst ... 678910 LastLast
Results 71 to 80 of 92

Thread: Union membership down again in 2010

  1. #71
    Sage

    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Last Seen
    11-17-17 @ 12:48 PM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    19,610

    Re: Union membership down again in 2010

    Quote Originally Posted by Lachean View Post
    Now was that so hard? K, I've taken you off my list of potential trolls.
    You're still on my list of potential (I'd rather not get kicked out of the thread).

    Its certainly tough, but that still doesn't constitute being taken advantage of. In order to "take advantage" of someone, you either exploit a mistake they made (like taking an underpaid overworked job) or to make excessive use of. I've put in 14 hour days in my office, THAT is excessive.

    5 -10 Additional students is a headache. I know many teachers, and I understand such a dilemma, especially when teacher merit is a consideration. But its not being "taken advantage of."
    And you don't think teachers haven't put in the same amount of hours? Really?

    I certainly think it's taking advantage - when you tie evaluation to failing circumstances it puts the teacher's job at risk.

  2. #72
    Only Losers H8 Capitalism
    Spartacus FPV's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    In your echo chamber
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 10:47 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian
    Posts
    12,893

    Re: Union membership down again in 2010

    Quote Originally Posted by theplaydrive View Post
    You're still on my list of potential (I'd rather not get kicked out of the thread).
    Good, pimps need haters. But you can probably get away with calling me "bad with which one douches" and not get thread banned.

    Quote Originally Posted by theplaydrive View Post
    And you don't think teachers haven't put in the same amount of hours? Really?
    Didn't say that, in fact I edited the sentence out.

    Quote Originally Posted by theplaydrive View Post
    I certainly think it's taking advantage - when you tie evaluation to failing circumstances it puts the teacher's job at risk.
    Then we'll have to disagree. Because I know quite a few teachers who went into the profession expecting that. IMO if you take the job you're signing up for the mess that is the public education system.
    Haymarket's "support" of the 2nd Amendment, a right he believes we never had.
    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    no. You cannot lose rights you do not have in the first place. There is no such thing as the right to have any weapon of your choice regardless of any other consideration. It simply does not exist.

  3. #73
    long standing member
    justabubba's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Last Seen
    Today @ 01:00 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    36,148

    Re: Union membership down again in 2010

    Quote Originally Posted by Lachean View Post
    Story of any company ever. If you wanted an hourly wage you shouldn't have accepted a salary.
    yes, you respond as if you are truly befuddled
    the question was what can result in the public sector if a union is no longer permitted to represent the employee
    i mentioned that employees could be forced to work off the clock, without compensation
    and you appear to believe that it is acceptable for an employer to work its employees uncompensated hours
    in the public sector, the one governed by regulations, rules and the law, compensation is required
    and it does sometimes require the union to step in and enforce such requirement. in another post i mentioned my own experience (as a union official) recently securing a $7.6 million award from my former employer as reimbursement for uncompensated work dating back to (FY) 2003
    my attempt was and is to respond to the question
    you err in believing my response was to another question which might have been worded along the lines of "when should an employee not expect to be paid for the work they perform". unfortunately for you, and the misdirected reader, that was not the matter being discussed

    When has this ever happened?
    it happens agency wide with my former employer. the difference is that in those offices represented by the union, the employees are not required to incur travel expenses out of their own pocket. that is why i listed it as an additional example of the behavior which can be found in the public sector which causes union involvement to be needed
    we are negotiating about dividing a pizza and in the meantime israel is eating it
    once you're over the hill you begin to pick up speed

  4. #74
    Only Losers H8 Capitalism
    Spartacus FPV's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    In your echo chamber
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 10:47 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian
    Posts
    12,893

    Re: Union membership down again in 2010

    Quote Originally Posted by justabubba View Post
    yes, you respond as if you are truly befuddled
    Spare me your ad-hominems they are irrelevant, and only serve to weaken your position.

    Quote Originally Posted by justabubba View Post
    the question was what can result in the public sector if a union is no longer permitted to represent the employee
    And when was this question posed?

    Quote Originally Posted by justabubba View Post
    i mentioned that employees could be forced to work off the clock, without compensation
    and you appear to believe that it is acceptable for an employer to work its employees uncompensated hours
    If they can be forced to do so, its because it is in their employment agreement/contract. Do you understand what salary means?

    Quote Originally Posted by justabubba View Post
    in the public sector, the one governed by regulations, rules and the law, compensation is required
    and it does sometimes require the union to step in and enforce such requirement. in another post i mentioned my own experience (as a union official) recently securing a $7.6 million award from my former employer as reimbursement for uncompensated work dating back to (FY) 2003
    my attempt was and is to respond to the question
    If you sign a contract for a salary that doesn't pay overtime, you agreed to the terms and are due no further compensation. If you were a wage earner, or were permitted overtime then it would be a different case. Because then compensation is required.

    So how was it determined that said work went uncompensated?

    Quote Originally Posted by justabubba View Post
    you err in believing my response was to another question which might have been worded along the lines of "when should an employee not expect to be paid for the work they perform". unfortunately for you, and the misdirected reader, that was not the matter being discussed
    You posed no question, and I made no error. You do not set the topic, the OP does, and my response has always been relevant to what I am addressing.

    What you did was respond to my post to Cole, when the question of the matter was "how does government take advantage of public employees, warranting unions?"

    Quote Originally Posted by justabubba View Post
    it happens agency wide with my former employer. the difference is that in those offices represented by the union, the employees are not required to incur travel expenses out of their own pocket. that is why i listed it as an additional example of the behavior which can be found in the public sector which causes union involvement to be needed
    Source?

    Also, they're called sentences and paragraphs. Post another box and I'll not waste my time on your insults.
    Last edited by Spartacus FPV; 04-07-11 at 04:18 PM.
    Haymarket's "support" of the 2nd Amendment, a right he believes we never had.
    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    no. You cannot lose rights you do not have in the first place. There is no such thing as the right to have any weapon of your choice regardless of any other consideration. It simply does not exist.

  5. #75
    long standing member
    justabubba's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Last Seen
    Today @ 01:00 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    36,148

    Re: Union membership down again in 2010

    Quote Originally Posted by Lachean View Post
    Spare me your ad-hominems they are irrelevant, and only serve to weaken your position.



    And when was this question posed?



    If they can be forced to do so, its because it is in their employment agreement/contract. Do you understand what salary means?



    If you sign a contract for a salary that doesn't pay overtime, you agreed to the terms and are due no further compensation. If you were a wage earner, or were permitted overtime then it would be a different case. Because then compensation is required.

    So how was it determined that said work went uncompensated?



    You posed no question, and I made no error. You do not set the topic, the OP does, and my response has always been relevant to what I am addressing.

    What you did was respond to my post to Cole, when the question of the matter was "how does government take advantage of public employees, warranting unions?"



    Source?
    Our Hot News | Federal EEO | SniderLaw.com
    Also, they're called sentences and paragraphs. Post another box and I'll not waste my time on your insults.
    i look forward to no longer seeing your posts
    we are negotiating about dividing a pizza and in the meantime israel is eating it
    once you're over the hill you begin to pick up speed

  6. #76
    Sage
    cpwill's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    USofA
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 08:57 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    57,115

    Re: Union membership down again in 2010

    Quote Originally Posted by justabubba View Post
    then you cannot imagine that one or more of those government employees would ever be susceptible to engage in wrong doing
    if this were simply a question of someone being sexually harrassed, verbally abused, etc; then no, obviously not. but it's not. this is about pay, benefits, who get's to control the education process. politicians are only representing the people, who are in charge of the government. they do not hold sovereignty themselves.

  7. #77
    long standing member
    justabubba's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Last Seen
    Today @ 01:00 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    36,148

    Re: Union membership down again in 2010

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    if this were simply a question of someone being sexually harrassed, verbally abused, etc; then no, obviously not. but it's not. this is about pay, benefits, who get's to control the education process. politicians are only representing the people, who are in charge of the government. they do not hold sovereignty themselves.
    i strongly disagree
    the union moved in the direction needed to address fiscal shortfalls
    despite that, the republicans insisted on depriving the state employees of union representation, which then also deprives them of the opportunity to address conditions of employment concerns including those your cited, sexual harassment and verbal abuse (hostile workplace)
    if this were truly an issue about reigning in spending, it could have been accomplished without eliminating union representation
    this is another republican strategy, like starve the beast, which constitutes payback to corporate America
    we are negotiating about dividing a pizza and in the meantime israel is eating it
    once you're over the hill you begin to pick up speed

  8. #78
    Sage
    cpwill's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    USofA
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 08:57 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    57,115

    Re: Union membership down again in 2010

    Quote Originally Posted by justabubba View Post
    i strongly disagree
    the union moved in the direction needed to address fiscal shortfalls
    despite that, the republicans insisted on depriving the state employees of union representation, which then also deprives them of the opportunity to address conditions of employment concerns including those your cited, sexual harassment and verbal abuse (hostile workplace)
    if this were truly an issue about reigning in spending, it could have been accomplished without eliminating union representation
    this is another republican strategy, like starve the beast, which constitutes payback to corporate America
    i'm sorry, are we talking about public unions in general, or the wisconsin case in particular; it seems you are switching back and forth.

  9. #79
    Sage

    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 10:42 PM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    89,877

    Re: Union membership down again in 2010

    Discussion like this strike me as being very akin to a discussion with veteran ball players joined in by fans who never played pro ball. The professionals who actually did the job have a level of both knowledge and experience far beyond the fans but do you think that stops Joe Blow from telling Albert All Star how to play the game? No way.

    Here we have people who have never been in a union pontificating about things they have never experienced.
    Here we have people who have never taught in a public school or worked in a public sector union job pontificating about things they never experienced.
    Now combine those two together and you have much of the posts in this thread.

    Its like listening to Stevie Wonder talks about the wonders of the colors of the spectrum. At some point, credibility becomes a factor in these discussions and there are too many people who have garnered their opinions from fiction, hearsay and just plain false information to be credible on the issue.

    We live in the age of political extremist ideology as opposed to pragmatics and practical experience. And much of this 'debate' illustrates that sad reality.
    __________________________________________________ _
    There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.... John Rogers

  10. #80
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    Oslo, Norway
    Last Seen
    07-07-16 @ 08:11 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Slightly Conservative
    Posts
    2,854

    Re: Union membership down again in 2010

    Quote Originally Posted by justabubba View Post
    i strongly disagree
    the union moved in the direction needed to address fiscal shortfalls
    despite that, the republicans insisted on depriving the state employees of union representation, which then also deprives them of the opportunity to address conditions of employment concerns including those your cited, sexual harassment and verbal abuse (hostile workplace)
    if this were truly an issue about reigning in spending, it could have been accomplished without eliminating union representation
    this is another republican strategy, like starve the beast, which constitutes payback to corporate America
    No, the unions were making lip service to prevent Americans from disliking them too much. If we don't reduce their power, then they will keep overdemanding after the economy recovers. I'm not against letting public unions negotiate for concern such as sexual harrassment, but then I'm talking about sexual harrassment. Not having to watch students eat lunch. I'm against letting public unions negotiate for wages and benefits. That was what the Wisconsin bill was about, but they can still ask for higher wages, but then they have to consult the people. They can't bribe politicans and therefore the Wisconsin bill is so unpopular.

Page 8 of 10 FirstFirst ... 678910 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •