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Poland's Solidarity Aligns with Wisconsin Workers

Tashah said:
Much like with the Jews, Nazi Germany attacked unions incrementally. One step at a time.

The Wisconsin GOP has taken a step.

Fortunately, the people will decide on the merits or demerits of their action.
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No, they did not. What's going on in Wisconsin has absolutely no comparability to Nazi Germay!! Unbelievable. Just. Unbelievable.

I don't know where you live, but here in the United States, the people always decide.
 
MaggieD said:
I don't know where you live, but here in the United States, the people always decide.
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Where do I live? I resent your cheap-shot insinuation. Does Naperville ring any bells? Talk about thuggery.

I am not a Democrat. I am not now and I have have never been a union member. This is a matter of principle. What the Wisconsin GOP did here was nothing short of gunboat diplomacy. I find it unbelievably sad that you can't see it.
 
MaggieD said:
Please tell me exactly what is not democracy in action. "They" don't have to explicitly state every piece of legislation they hope to enact. Where in the Constitution does it say that? As to whether or not it is widely unpopular? The democratic process will prove that out.

The only subversion of democracy done in Wisconsin was when a possee of Democrats donned running shoes and ran like little girls into Illinois. Unless you have other concrete examples??
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He didn't have to run on what he is doing, but why didn't he? Could it be that he knew it would be risky to run on and not that popular with the voters?

It's not democratic because the people didn't actually vote for what he is doing. If he ran on what he was doing, he probably wouldn't have been elected, and since his poll numbers have dropped significantly.

A new Rasmussen Reports telephone survey of Likely Wisconsin Voters finds that just 34% Strongly Approve of the job he is doing, while 48% Strongly Disapprove. Overall, including those who somewhat approve or disapprove, the new Republican governor earns positive reviews from 43% and negative reviews from 57% of voters statewide.
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34% strongly approve... that's it! That doesn't look democratic to me, it doesn't look like he governing according to the people who elected him.
Wisconsin Governor Walker: 43% Approval Rating - Rasmussen Reports™

Yet another poll in Wisconsin, this time commissioned by a free-market think tank, the Wisconsin Policy Research Institute, shows voters disapproving of Gov. Scott Walker, and saying he should compromise on his budget proposal and its anti-public employee union provisions.

Walker's overall approval ratings and personal favorable numbers are identical, at 43% approval/favorable to 53% disapproval/unfavorable, with only some internal variation between the "strongly" and "somewhat" sub-categories in each.
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53% disapprove of him in that poll... that's more than half. I'd say that's pretty bad. If the guy doesn't want to get recalled, he should actually try listening to the people who voted for him.

Another Poll: Wisconsinites Disapprove Of Walker, Want Him To Compromise | TPMDC
 
SheWolf said:
He didn't have to run on what he is doing, but why didn't he? Could it be that he knew it would be risky to run on and not that popular with the voters?

It's not democratic because the people didn't actually vote for what he is doing. If he ran on what he was doing, he probably wouldn't have been elected, and since his poll numbers have dropped significantly.

34% strongly approve... that's it! That doesn't look democratic to me, it doesn't look like he governing according to the people who elected him.
Wisconsin Governor Walker: 43% Approval Rating - Rasmussen Reports™

53% disapprove of him in that poll... that's more than half. I'd say that's pretty bad. If the guy doesn't want to get recalled, he should actually try listening to the people who voted for him.

Another Poll: Wisconsinites Disapprove Of Walker, Want Him To Compromise | TPMDC
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We don't govern by polls in the United States. As for polls, what questions did they ask? Who did they poll? When were the polls taken? What was the methodology used? Poll results are meaningless without this information.

I don't know what's going to happen with this legislation. I don't know who will actually be recalled. But I do know that we are operating within the confines of a democracy and not in any way, shape or form anything at all!! like Nazi Germany!!
 
Wisconsin-Signs.png


Sorry Maggs, couldn't resist :2razz:
 
Tashah said:
Where do I live? I resent your cheap-shot insinuation. Does Naperville ring any bells? Talk about thuggery.

I am not a Democrat. I am not now and I have have never been a union member. This is a matter of principle. What the Wisconsin GOP did here was nothing short of gunboat diplomacy. I find it unbelievably sad that you can't see it.
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What the heck is thuggery about that?? You'll have to excuse me that I thought you lived outside of the US. I don't know what I was thinking. Oh! Maybe it was the foreign alphabet in your Location information. And your signature.

I, on the other hand, find it unbelievably sad that you would compare Wisconsin to Nazi Germany. Here's what Hitler did:

Reviewing a transcript of the opening statement of the chief U.S. counsel in the Nuremberg Trials, we found the Nazis:

•Seized all funds of labor unions and arrested union leaders, sending them to concentration camps.
•Ordered that no workers organizations, except ones created by Hitler, would exist.
•Replaced collective bargaining with Hitler-appointed "trustees" to regulate the conditions of all labor contracts.
•So, Hitler abolished all unions and collective bargaining by decree, not with legislation. And he used force to liquidate the unions that did exist.
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Pick out the ones that are similar to the Wisconsin situation. And list 'em. Or admit that your comparison might have been just a tad over the top. I'd admit it in a heartbeat. Will you?

Edit: Oh, now that's just plain nasty!! :rofl :rofl
 
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MaggieD said:
We don't govern by polls in the United States. As for polls, what questions did they ask? Who did they poll? When were the polls taken? What was the methodology used? Poll results are meaningless without this information.

I don't know what's going to happen with this legislation. I don't know who will actually be recalled. But I do know that we are operating within the confines of a democracy and not in any way, shape or form anything at all!! like Nazi Germany!!
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Read the website... you'll find the dates. I am pretty sure when an approval/disapproval poll is conducted the only thing asked is if you approve or disapprove. I have taken those before, and some other questions it may ask is your party affiliation and you're age, maybe race too.

As for the laws, nobody is acting outside of the law... the republicans or the democrats. The democrats, when they left the state, and the republicans when they moved the legislation through the government. That's different than acting in favor with the voters, which it doesn't appear that they are doing. That's why the recall is moving ahead.

Just to make sure we are on the same page here, would you or would you not have a problem if a super majority was voted into office and then government according their own will and not the people? Don't you think that's a problem in principle? I don't think the government was designed to operate that way. That's why the founders gave us the constitution and free elections...
 
SheWolf said:
Read the website... you'll find the dates. I am pretty sure when an approval/disapproval poll is conducted the only thing asked is if you approve or disapprove. I have taken those before, and some other questions it may ask is your party affiliation and you're age, maybe race too.

As for the laws, nobody is acting outside of the law... the republicans or the democrats. The democrats, when they left the state, and the republicans when they moved the legislation through the government. That's different than acting in favor with the voters, which it doesn't appear that they are doing. That's why the recall is moving ahead.

Just to make sure we are on the same page here, would you or would you not have a problem if a super majority was voted into office and then government according their own will and not the people? Don't you think that's a problem in principle? I don't think the government was designed to operate that way. That's why the founders gave us the constitution and free elections...
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Well, thank you for that admission that no one acted outside the law. I'm good with that.

I think Governor Walker did what he thought was right for the state of Wisconsin. It just may have destroyed his career. Or made him a hero. Time will tell. I just got furious (Damn that TashaH! ;)) that anyone would compare Walker to Hitler or Wisconsin to Nazi Germany. It is so typical of the over-the-top crap that's been going on -- on the union side.

Yeah, we are sort of on the same page. I think Walker went for too much too soon. But I don't find fault with him for one main reason: his changes still give public sector workers more bargaining power than every Federal employee in the United States.

I tried to find the questions asked in the last poll link you posted. Clicked on Methodology, but it didn't give the questions. It did say that the poll was taken on week days, 9 to 5. Interesting. Who's home? I hate polls. Especially when they don't agree with me. ;)
 
Tashah said:
My name is Tashah. Not Tasha. Solidarity views it exactly as I do... the Wisconsin GOP is traveling down a very slippery slope.
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You haven't explained your position how government workers feeding from the tax payer, and the correction is equal to Hitler's Germany. You may have explained it elsewhere, but not everyone reads all your posts as they don't read mine. I've posted David Kay's and Hans Blix's testimony numerous times because folks I don't assume folks have seen it... so...

How is Walker akin to Hitler, and where is this slippery slope? You've posted but there is no substance in those posts. How about a logical explanation?

Bitte.

.
 
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Patrickt said:
Organized crime often has supporters who think they can get something and give up nothing. Unions are a very, very lucrative branch of organized crime. Extortion, fraud, bribery, assault, intimidation, theft, and other crimes are their stock in trade.
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I never understand the assumed connection between public unions and organized crime. It seems very anachronistic. This isn't the 1920s-50s.
 
TheBook said:
I never understand the assumed connection between public unions and organized crime. It seems very anachronistic. This isn't the 1920s-50s.
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Fact is, unions are as American as apple pie, and an overwhelming majority of Americans don't want them screwed with. This will be a major issue in 2012, and the battle of Wisconsin is but a harbinger of things to come. My advise to Republicans - Fughettibottit. You are playing with fire, and it will burn you.
 
danarhea said:
Fact is, unions are as American as apple pie, and an overwhelming majority of Americans don't want them screwed with. This will be a major issue in 2012, and the battle of Wisconsin is but a harbinger of things to come. My advise to Republicans - Fughettibottit. You are playing with fire, and it will burn you.
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Especially if the Dems manage to make it not about unions but about the right to do what you want with in the law .... you know a typical republican mantra thing.. This is after all what it is about.. taking away the rights of individuals to do what they want with their lives.
 
zimmer said:
Government workers, those at the tax payer's trough shouldn't be unionized.
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Why on earth not? Do you think just because they're receiving wages from the public pot (which they themselves pay into) they should have the right to negotiation regarding any changes removed from them?
 
danarhea said:
Fact is, unions are as American as apple pie, and an overwhelming majority of Americans don't want them screwed with. This will be a major issue in 2012, and the battle of Wisconsin is but a harbinger of things to come. My advise to Republicans - Fughettibottit. You are playing with fire, and it will burn you.
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Apple Pie is English... not American...
 
zimmer said:
How is Walker akin to Hitler, and where is this slippery slope? You've posted but there is no substance in those posts. How about a logical explanation?
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Just giving you and Maggie a taste of your own swill. Union members are thugs? Okay then. The WI/GOP is doing the goose step.

You play nice, I'll play nice. Capiche?
 
The main reason why I have avoided talking about the WI union bill is the over the top rhetoric from both sides. The vast majority of union members are not "thugs," and the stereotype of connecting unions to organized crime are largely overblown. My mother has been a public school teacher in New Jersey for decades, and she is not a thug. On the other hand, comparing Walker to the Eastern Bloc regimes or Nazi Germany is incredibly asinine. Walker, the state's executive, passed asked the legislature to pass a bill regarding how government in his state will be run. Nazi Germany and the Soviet Union violently crushed all opposition and got rid of private, as well as public unions.
 
Tashah said:
Just giving you and Maggie a taste of your own swill. Union members are thugs? Okay then. The WI/GOP is doing the goose step.

You play nice, I'll play nice. Capiche?
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ROTFLOL... that's your position?

OK.

.
 
Tashah said:
Just giving you and Maggie a taste of your own swill. Union members are thugs? Okay then. The WI/GOP is doing the goose step.

You play nice, I'll play nice. Capiche?
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Hey, don't forget. The guys bashing the unions were all born in Kenya too. :mrgreen:
 
Tashah said:
Just giving you and Maggie a taste of your own swill. Union members are thugs? Okay then. The WI/GOP is doing the goose step.

You play nice, I'll play nice. Capiche?
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Nice try. ;)
 
MaggieD said:
Nice try. ;)
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Ditto. You get what you give.

It's quite disingenuous to peddle crappola yourself and then complain when the favor is returned.
 
theplaydrive said:
Great, so we agree - he wants public unions gone.
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Kindergarten debate tactic. Show us where she agrees that "unions gone" is what she said he wanted.
 
DrunkenAsparagus said:
The main reason why I have avoided talking about the WI union bill is the over the top rhetoric from both sides. The vast majority of union members are not "thugs," and the stereotype of connecting unions to organized crime are largely overblown. My mother has been a public school teacher in New Jersey for decades, and she is not a thug. On the other hand, comparing Walker to the Eastern Bloc regimes or Nazi Germany is incredibly asinine. Walker, the state's executive, passed asked the legislature to pass a bill regarding how government in his state will be run. Nazi Germany and the Soviet Union violently crushed all opposition and got rid of private, as well as public unions.
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I agree. Union workers dont get up in the morning and consciously think about screwing the taxpayers. They get out of bed and go to work to make a living and feed their families.
Walker is not a Communist but he certainly was an overbearing I dont want to hear nothing from no one person, who the first thing he did upon being elected was give the corporations and the wealthy a tax cut and the second thing he did was to take it off the workers.
Its been the same scenario with several Govs...Christie, Walker, Kasich, and others, get elected immediately give another tax cut and then attack the working class. I would have had more respect for them if they didnt give tax cuts and asked for concessions from public workers, then waited until the finances turned around to give another tax cut.

Paul Ryans budget plan does the same thing...tax cuts for the rich and corporations then takes from the poor and middle class.
Seriously who is kidding who here.
 
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