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GOP plans $1 trillion Medicaid cut

I wonder what the results have been turning over health care to the private sectors? This is being done in certain cities. Anyway, it shows we are capable of figuring this all out. I seriously don't want to see elderly and disabled people be dirt poor and helpless for medical care. Being elderly or disabled is not anyone's fault. I think the government has to make some very tough decisions. Even decisions that are unfair to some.
 
They do? Where? not on these boards

i do in nearly every discussion i have about our entitlements. conservatives have been sounding the alarm about our unfunded liabilities for years.

and certainly not the "experts" I see on TV

then that's your fault for not watching FOX.

And those that supposedly cite the theft, do they demand that the Feds put the money back? Of course not, because that would make social security much more viable in the short, medium and long term!..

and would also be impossible. that money is spent.

Not "our" problem

it's America's problem

The money has been paid in by people.

and then spent by the chosen representatives of those people on those people.

trust me; i wish we could "give back" the Great Society. but we can't. the money is gone

Do you really want millions of poor elderly people dieing on the streets.. you know, like 80+ years ago?

no, i don't. but tell me about these legions of starving elderly 80 years ago. i can't seem to find any mention of them in my history books...

anywho; the charge is baseless hyperbole. the republican plan doesn't change anything for anyone over 55; including current retirees.

The problem in the US is very simple.. zero competition or regulation. When a state has 1 or 2 carriers, then you know you got a serious problem. You do understand the principle of a monopoly/duopoly right?

i do; what i do not understand is why you think a monopoly is a desireable state.
 
Last night there was a link on Drudges to Paul Ryans proposal reported by Reuters it had the full article which I read, the link now does not have the entire article anymore this morning, it has a small snippet. In the full version I read last night
The gop wants to cut the TOP tax rate from 35% to 25% and the corporate tax rate, NO tax cuts for the middle class and drastic cuts in Medicare, Medicaid and Social Security to get to 5.8 trillion in cuts. If that report was accurate, the democrats will eat them alive. Youve already had GOP govs giving tax breaks as soon as they got into officea and the bush tax cuts were already extended and now they want to give the wealthy and corporations another tax break while attacking entitlements....the teaparty is going to far right the GOP into the same arsewhooping the farleft pelosi did for the Dems
 
Last night there was a link on Drudges to Paul Ryans proposal reported by Reuters it had the full article which I read, the link now does not have the entire article anymore this morning, it has a small snippet. In the full version I read last night
The gop wants to cut the TOP tax rate from 35% to 25% and the corporate tax rate, NO tax cuts for the middle class and drastic cuts in Medicare, Medicaid and Social Security to get to 5.8 trillion in cuts. If that report was accurate, the democrats will eat them alive. Youve already had GOP govs giving tax breaks as soon as they got into officea and the bush tax cuts were already extended and now they want to give the wealthy and corporations another tax break while attacking entitlements....again if that report I read last night was true
 
they also want to reduce loopholes so that those people and corporations pay taxes (GE). dropping tax rates while expanding the tax base and reducing tax code complexity is a great way to keep revenues neutral while boosting the economy; which is precisely why President Obama's bi-partisan debt reduction commission suggested it.

as for cuts to social security, medicare, medicaid; there aren't any "cuts" to these programs. not a single dollar that got spent last year will not be spent next year. all that is done is that medicaid is turned into a block grant to alter the incentive structure faced by state governments and social security and medicare are reformed to save them for the future generations. those fifty-five and older see not a single change whatsoever.

Here is the brutal math: we can do this now, or in ten years we can just start chucking people off the programs en masse. the unfunded liability for social security and medicare alone is larger than world GDP; it's $106 TRILLION. there just isn't that kind of money laying around when we are already trillions in debt.

we're at that point in the ponzi scheme where we are running out of suckers and money. we can either exit wisely in a way that allows us to ease into something that's sustainable, or we can pretend it's not a problem and lose everything (read: hyperinflation or bankruptcy, and either way a worldwide economic collapse). The GOP Leadership is being fairly brave right now, and should be commended.
 
Short term-minded cuts on preventative care are just that, short term. The deficit is fixable with the removal of the Bush tax cuts along with the removal of corporate tax loopholes along with other reforms to the tax code (e.g. creating a higher tax bracket at $1 million) and raising the retirement age. All of these solutions are viable long-term.

We need to cut out all loopholes and subsidies. No need to raise taxes on anyone.
 
We need to cut out all loopholes and subsidies. No need to raise taxes on anyone.

I agree with you barb...what I dont think we need is to cut loopholes and give another tax cut on top of the state tax cuts and the bush tax cuts right now.

What all of you are ignoring is that when the economy comes back and people are back to work there will far more money flowing into the treasury.
 
1) The poor will simply get treated at emergency rooms instead of seeing their doctor.

2) The poor will wait until their conditions deteriorate before seeking treatment, which will then become much more expensive than it otherwise would.

3) With no more preventive medicine for the poor, they will be going to emergency rooms in droves, when they develop serious conditions that could have been prevented by treatment in a clinic.

Please tell me how this....

Ryan’s preferred treatment for Medicaid, outlined in a policy booklet called “A Roadmap for America’s Future,” is to convert current federal payments to states into direct assistance in the form of $11,000 per year per recipient, which could be used to purchase private insurance. Read more: GOP plans $1 trillion Medicaid cut - Jonathan Allen - POLITICO.com

....is going to result in your #'s 1-2-3. Gads. We don't even know what his proposal is. I'm so sick and tired of people who stand in the way of fiscal reform by whining, "Yeah, but don't cut this one!!!!!"
 
But in your ideal system of fairness, wouldn't it be prudent to also eliminate fraud and abuse in entitlement spending. SS, Medicare, Medicaid, UEI, food stamps, and welfare, subsidies etc..? I am one of those self made rich dudes, and I personally wouldn't mind paying a bit more, if everyone else sacrificed a bit as well. Unlike those rascally rich folks the lib's are always talking about, I sacraficed a great deal as I was making my way up the ladder. I missed a lot while my kids were growing up, I sacrificed my first marriage while I was working those 70 and 80 hour work weeks.. I don't feel guilty for being rich, I damn well earned it, and paid for it many times over.. My sacrifices are documented.. What about the sacrifices of the welfare peeps who have state of the art cell phones, the best sneakers, and the bling? What is their sacrifice?

There's lot's that can be done to reign in over zelaous politicians, but it works both ways.. or it should!

Besides, notwithstanding my little rant.. It doesn't matter. It can't be fixed with taxes and spending cuts.. We as a nation are beyond the tipping point. The only thing our current crop of politicians can do is continue to push it off on later generations, and continue to lie bald faced to the American public while continuing to do so..


Tim-

no offense, but i have a hard time sympathizing with a man who sacrificed a marriage and family for wealth.
 
A trillion bucks over the next 10 years is quite a bit, but it won't work, and will actually end up being more expensive than what is now in place.

1) The poor will simply get treated at emergency rooms instead of seeing their doctor.

2) The poor will wait until their conditions deteriorate before seeking treatment, which will then become much more expensive than it otherwise would.

3) With no more preventive medicine for the poor, they will be going to emergency rooms in droves, when they develop serious conditions that could have been prevented by treatment in a clinic.

In my opinion, this is a dumb move. Even if you view poor people as leeches on society, gutting Medicaid is going to result in bigger expenditures in the long run. Now there is ONE way to reduce the expenses that poor people cost the rest of us. Just set an earnings limit of, say, 10,000 bucks a year, and everybody under that income gets taken to a field where they are all shot and then dumped into a mass grave. You know, that would work for the disabled too. I know, I know, this sounds cold as hell, but since we are talking about reducing the budget so that banksters can feel comfortable with all those bailout bonuses we are giving them, we are going to have to balance the budget someplace. Since we are choosing to balance it on the backs of the poor and disabled, let's just kill them all so they will no longer be a problem. We can then, in church, raise our hands to the Lord, in front of the entire world, and let Jesus know that we did care enough about the poor to do something about them. Hallelujah! :mrgreen:

Article is here.

I would find this post funny, if it wasn't so sad. Let's get this straight. First dems decry the $61 billion of proposed cuts for 2011 saying they are a drop in the bucket. The cry is only looking at a small portion of the budget, not the real problem, entitlements. Then a congressperson actually has the nerve to propose a way, perhaps not the best way, to curtail the key medical entitlements which will bankrupt the country and the partisans attack blindly.

How can this country get back on a sane fiscal stance with an electorate like this.

This post should be a wake up call to this country that it is on the wrong track. You would think that people on a site like this actually understand the issues at more detail than the population overall.
 
The plan is being unveiled on Fox right now.
 
classic implementation of the republican starve the beast political strategy

eliminate the availability of revenues - in this case the $Trillion in tax savings for millionaires and billionaires

and to make up for that loss, make cuts - also a $Trillion - to diminish the availability of medical care for the elderly
 
Working in a pharmacy, I can tell you that almost 90% (or so it seems) of Medicaid prescriptions are spent on narcotics, birth control, and viagra. Things that are not necessary to life. The truth is, is that cuts need to be made, and they may hurt. We need to reform healthcare to make it cheaper. It wouldn't surprise me if we spend all the cut money on waste anyway.
 
classic implementation of the republican starve the beast political strategy

eliminate the availability of revenues - in this case the $Trillion in tax savings for millionaires and billionaires

and to make up for that loss, make cuts - also a $Trillion - to diminish the availability of medical care for the elderly

Nor sure if you undertand that the medical entitlement costs are the long term killer for the U.. budget. I have heard the number of $30 trillion anticipated shortfall in present dollars. So yes, this is a key problem that has to be fixed.

My sense is that the only way to really fix our problem is that dems will have to be realistic about entitlements and repubs will have to be realisitc about taxes. My understanding is that the proposal acknowledged the need for tac reforms but did not get into specifics.

It would also seem that not enough attention was on defense spending. But this plan was just to get the discussion on the table. It is not this way or the highway.

This could be a baseline on what is the key issue for the 2012 elections. Sort of like Ross Perot's " great sucking sound" of job outsourcing, which turned out to be true. It also led Clinton to be more fiscally sound than the two guys following him.
 
Working in a pharmacy, I can tell you that almost 90% (or so it seems) of Medicaid prescriptions are spent on narcotics, birth control, and viagra. Things that are not necessary to life. The truth is, is that cuts need to be made, and they may hurt. We need to reform healthcare to make it cheaper. It wouldn't surprise me if we spend all the cut money on waste anyway.

that seems kinda odd. btw, birth control is a good thing. you can't bitch about too many abortions AND birth control coverage at the same time.
 
Working in a pharmacy, I can tell you that almost 90% (or so it seems) of Medicaid prescriptions are spent on narcotics, birth control, and viagra. Things that are not necessary to life. The truth is, is that cuts need to be made, and they may hurt. We need to reform healthcare to make it cheaper. It wouldn't surprise me if we spend all the cut money on waste anyway.

Put those three things and you got one major party.
 
that seems kinda odd. btw, birth control is a good thing. you can't bitch about too many abortions AND birth control coverage at the same time.

I can when I'm paying for it. Literally, they drive up in SUV's and are on medicaid. This is wrong.
 
Nor sure if you undertand that the medical entitlement costs are the long term killer for the U.. budget. I have heard the number of $30 trillion anticipated shortfall in present dollars. So yes, this is a key problem that has to be fixed.

My sense is that the only way to really fix our problem is that dems will have to be realistic about entitlements and repubs will have to be realisitc about taxes. My understanding is that the proposal acknowledged the need for tac reforms but did not get into specifics.

It would also seem that not enough attention was on defense spending. But this plan was just to get the discussion on the table. It is not this way or the highway.

This could be a baseline on what is the key issue for the 2012 elections. Sort of like Ross Perot's " great sucking sound" of job outsourcing, which turned out to be true. It also led Clinton to be more fiscally sound than the two guys following him.
i understand the problem

i also understand we have only recently been gifted a template to solve the fiscal problem: the deficit commission report

unfortunately, the democrats do not want to have to deal with its cost cutting aspects of entitlements and the republicans refuse to recognize the need for revision of the tax system
there is too much truth in that simpson-bowles report ... hence it is DOA ... like the present republican proposal
 
I can when I'm paying for it. Literally, they drive up in SUV's and are on medicaid. This is wrong.

fraud is everywhere, but the whole "driving caddies and using food stamps" is trite.
 
i understand the problem

i also understand we have only recently been gifted a template to solve the fiscal problem: the deficit commission report

unfortunately, the democrats do not want to have to deal with its cost cutting aspects of entitlements and the republicans refuse to recognize the need for revision of the tax system
there is too much truth in that simpson-bowles report ... hence it is DOA ... like the present republican proposal

that would be the one Obama ignored in his budget recommendations, right?
Obama budget falls far short of debt commission savings plan - The Hill's On The Money
President Obama’s 2012 budget request to be released on Monday will reduce budget deficits over the next decade by only a quarter of the amount proposed by the presidential debt commission in December, a senior administration official confirmed Sunday.
 
i also understand we have only recently been gifted a template to solve the fiscal problem: the deficit commission report

they surprised everyone by actually doing their job and doing it well; that is true.

unfortunately, the democrats do not want to have to deal with its cost cutting aspects of entitlements

or cowboy poets.

and the republicans refuse to recognize the need for revision of the tax system

actually what we are seeing from the Republican tax plan out of this budget is very similar to what Bowles-Simpson suggested; lowering rates by removing loopholes. and the Medicare reform is very similar (if not the exact) to the bipartisan Ryan-Rivlin plan from that same commission.
 
This is basically cutting health care for our poor, elderly. I see this backfiring, but whatever. It doesn't really matter, because it's not really a cut. Health care is inelastic so the money will come from some where.
 
This is basically cutting health care for our poor, elderly. I see this backfiring, but whatever. It doesn't really matter, because it's not really a cut. Health care is inelastic so the money will come from some where.

You got it wrong. They are going to subsidze the private industry in order to save money. In essence, they want to turn Medcaid into a giant HMO.
 
that would be the one Obama ignored in his budget recommendations, right?
Obama budget falls far short of debt commission savings plan - The Hill's On The Money
President Obama’s 2012 budget request to be released on Monday will reduce budget deficits over the next decade by only a quarter of the amount proposed by the presidential debt commission in December, a senior administration official confirmed Sunday.

yeah. and even that turned out to be wildly optimistic.
 
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