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Thread: Female U.S. Soldiers in Afghanistan ‘Encouraged’ to Wear Hijab

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    Re: Female U.S. Soldiers in Afghanistan ‘Encouraged’ to Wear Hijab

    Quote Originally Posted by Marshabar View Post
    Go read the report, it's pretty damned damning. And very much ignored.

    You can find it here: Senate report on Fort Hood massacre critical of FBI, Army | wfaa.com | Home Page
    Ouch! That whole thing stung
    The enemy — Islamist extremists — must be labeled correctly and explicitly, the report said, in order for the military to counter the extremism.
    I'm trying to find an accessible pdf of the report - but eveyr link I've tried so far is unavailable or 404
    Last edited by Aunt Spiker; 04-01-11 at 11:20 PM.
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    Re: Female U.S. Soldiers in Afghanistan ‘Encouraged’ to Wear Hijab

    Quote Originally Posted by repeter View Post
    How does this relate to Islamic culture? Your link explained how the military failed to connect the dots, not that they were trying to adapt Muslim culture into our military, and it backfired or something.
    I guess you'd have to read the thread to understand the post.

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    Re: Female U.S. Soldiers in Afghanistan ‘Encouraged’ to Wear Hijab

    Quote Originally Posted by rathi View Post
    On an ethical level, it pisses me off to ask anyone to kowtow to sexist bull**** like muffling women up. However, our "goal" in Afghanistan requires it. If you really want to play the nation building game, these are the kinds of moves you have to make.
    No, bull****, if this was really to reach our "goal" then this would be more than a recommendation. So, since it's not required, you still gonna ask our women soldiers to "kow tow to sexist bull****"? If so, at least spare us the fake indignation at doing so.
    Last edited by X Factor; 04-01-11 at 11:20 PM.
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    Re: Female U.S. Soldiers in Afghanistan ‘Encouraged’ to Wear Hijab

    Quote Originally Posted by X Factor View Post
    No, bull****, if this was really to reach our "goal" then this would be more than a recommendation. So, since it's not required, you still gonna ask our women soldiers to "kow tow to sexist bull****"? If so, at least spare us the fake indignation at doing so.
    There's a lot more to this than 'feminism / sexism' issues.
    I don't understand *why* you can't *understand* that.

    If something is a barrier to progressing forward then you have two options.

    1) break down the barrier and charge over it's shattered remains
    2) go around the barrier.

    If just ONE female soldier wears a hajib and gets AROND some stupid patriarchal barrier so she can help a mother and her children get food or seek medical asssistance then I'd say it's worth it.

    How can you gain trust and help if they're so hung up on things like this? When it comes ot two people being at an impass the one who is more flexible and goes the extra mile ot make a connection is going to have more success persuading the other party to be more accepting and considerate of input.

    Until we gain their trust and can continue ot improve relations and understandings between our cultures we will NOT be able ot make the necessary steps to break down the barrier - no matter how sexist people think it is.
    Last edited by Aunt Spiker; 04-01-11 at 11:33 PM.
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    Re: Female U.S. Soldiers in Afghanistan ‘Encouraged’ to Wear Hijab

    Quote Originally Posted by Marshabar View Post
    I guess you'd have to read the thread to understand the post.
    I've read the thread, and its not relevant. The issue is integrating Islamic culture into the military, specifically the use of a Hijab for female soldiers in Afghanistan. Major Hasan's attack at Ft. Hood is a completely different issue.
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    Re: Female U.S. Soldiers in Afghanistan ‘Encouraged’ to Wear Hijab

    Quote Originally Posted by Aunt Spiker View Post
    There's a lot more to this than 'feminism / sexism' issues.
    I don't understand *why* you can't *understand* that.
    It's not that I don't understand that, I just find it interesting which principles people are willing to compromise. I'm going to use an argument I hear all the time in the abortion debate, if it were the guys who wore the hijab, would we expect our military men to do it?
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    Re: Female U.S. Soldiers in Afghanistan ‘Encouraged’ to Wear Hijab

    Quote Originally Posted by X Factor View Post
    No, bull****, if this was really to reach our "goal" then this would be more than a recommendation. So, since it's not required, you still gonna ask our women soldiers to "kow tow to sexist bull****"? If so, at least spare us the fake indignation at doing so.
    so just to clarify, you're annoyed at the commanders who might be encouraging the females to wear this right?
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    Re: Female U.S. Soldiers in Afghanistan ‘Encouraged’ to Wear Hijab

    Quote Originally Posted by X Factor View Post
    It's not that I don't understand that, I just find it interesting which principles people are willing to compromise. I'm going to use an argument I hear all the time in the abortion debate, if it were the guys who wore the hijab, would we expect our military men to do it?
    When the helper's principles are being over-ridden by the helpees principles, fears and rules - then the one who has the most freedom to change and flex should be the one to change and flex.

    They're not asking that people *believe* this or *support* that - they're just saying that "it might help us on our path to helping them"

    There aren't just rules concerning the clothing of women who are natives of the country which ONLY affect those women - those same women are also expected ot avoid interacting with *anyone* who violates those rules - foreigner, guest or not. If wearing a hajib for a while would get someone in a door so they *can* actually help then I see that as a good thing.

    If the gender roles were reversed it would be the exact same situation.
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    Re: Female U.S. Soldiers in Afghanistan ‘Encouraged’ to Wear Hijab

    Quote Originally Posted by Serenity View Post
    so just to clarify, you're annoyed at the commanders who might be encouraging the females to wear this right?
    Yes. Did you read the whole article? In some cases they're being "encouraged" to wear these instead of their helmets, whereas the men get to keep their helmets on.

    “Nobody is saying, ‘Okay as we head out onto this dangerous street, you wear a hijab instead of your kevlar helmet,’” Lawhorn said. “As women are on some of these engagement teams and they are going to go into places where are going to predominantly be dealing with other women, like giving them medical information or finding out their concerns are in the local community. Local commanders are encouraging them — not demanding, but encouraging — if they feel more comfortable — ‘Feel free to wear a headscarf.’”

    Rotunda remained unconvinced, telling TheDC that helmets are always the preferred head wear among soldiers.
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    Re: Female U.S. Soldiers in Afghanistan ‘Encouraged’ to Wear Hijab

    Quote Originally Posted by Aunt Spiker View Post
    When the helper's principles are being over-ridden by the helpees principles, fears and rules - then the one who has the most freedom to change and flex should be the one to change and flex.

    They're not asking that people *believe* this or *support* that - they're just saying that "it might help us on our path to helping them"

    There aren't just rules concerning the clothing of women who are natives of the country which ONLY affect those women - those same women are also expected ot avoid interacting with *anyone* who violates those rules - foreigner, guest or not. If wearing a hajib for a while would get someone in a door so they *can* actually help then I see that as a good thing.

    If the gender roles were reversed it would be the exact same situation.
    Well hell, why not do away with all military uniforms and weapons? I'm sure the locals would be a lot more comfortable if none of our soldiers had either of those things.
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