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Thread: Female U.S. Soldiers in Afghanistan ‘Encouraged’ to Wear Hijab

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    Re: Female U.S. Soldiers in Afghanistan ‘Encouraged’ to Wear Hijab

    Quote Originally Posted by StillBallin75 View Post
    Small Wars Manual.
    It may say that but overall we used Marshal Law and did everything short of War Crimes to crush the enemy. The Marines understood you could win the hearts and minds after you crush the enemy and brought security to the people.

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    Re: Female U.S. Soldiers in Afghanistan ‘Encouraged’ to Wear Hijab

    Quote Originally Posted by StillBallin75 View Post
    In this case, yes, that's how I would sum it up. We're there to win a war, not as feminist advocates.
    So, when the rubber really hits the road, liberalism is essentially useless?








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    Re: Female U.S. Soldiers in Afghanistan ‘Encouraged’ to Wear Hijab

    Quote Originally Posted by X Factor View Post
    So, when the rubber really hits the road, liberalism is essentially useless?








    I'm just messin' with you.
    If we wanted to transform Afghanistan into a Western-style liberal democracy, then by all means I would want nothing more than to **** on their fundamentalist cultural practices (stoning, revenge killings, forced marriages, cutting off women's noses, etc.) That is pretty much a pipe dream however.
    Last edited by StillBallin75; 04-03-11 at 01:14 PM.
    Nobody who wins a war indulges in a bifurcated definition of victory. War is a political act; victory and defeat have meaning only in political terms. A country incapable of achieving its political objectives at an acceptable cost is losing the war, regardless of battlefield events.

    Bifurcating victory (e.g. winning militarily, losing politically) is a useful salve for defeated armies. The "stab in the back" narrative helped take the sting out of failure for German generals after WWI and their American counterparts after Vietnam.

    All the same, it's nonsense. To paraphrase Vince Lombardi, show me a political loser, and I'll show you a loser.
    - Colonel Paul Yingling

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    Re: Female U.S. Soldiers in Afghanistan ‘Encouraged’ to Wear Hijab

    Quote Originally Posted by StillBallin75 View Post
    If we wanted to transform Afghanistan into a Western-style liberal democracy, then by all means I would want nothing more than to **** on their fundamentalist cultural practices (stoning, revenge killings, forced marriages, cutting of women's noses, etc.)
    But as of right now you want to what? Respect those " fundamentalist cultural practices"?
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    Re: Female U.S. Soldiers in Afghanistan ‘Encouraged’ to Wear Hijab

    Quote Originally Posted by X Factor View Post
    But as of right now you want to what? Respect those " fundamentalist cultural practices"?
    Not so much respect, as recognize that we're not there to change their culture because we have more pressing things to worry about. I don't think wearing a hijab in and of itself is oppressive though, it's just unsexy.
    Nobody who wins a war indulges in a bifurcated definition of victory. War is a political act; victory and defeat have meaning only in political terms. A country incapable of achieving its political objectives at an acceptable cost is losing the war, regardless of battlefield events.

    Bifurcating victory (e.g. winning militarily, losing politically) is a useful salve for defeated armies. The "stab in the back" narrative helped take the sting out of failure for German generals after WWI and their American counterparts after Vietnam.

    All the same, it's nonsense. To paraphrase Vince Lombardi, show me a political loser, and I'll show you a loser.
    - Colonel Paul Yingling

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    Re: Female U.S. Soldiers in Afghanistan ‘Encouraged’ to Wear Hijab

    Quote Originally Posted by StillBallin75 View Post
    Not so much respect, as recognize that we're not there to change their culture because we have more pressing things to worry about. I don't think wearing a hijab in and of itself is oppressive though, it's just unsexy.
    If we're not interested in changing the culture at all, what's the point in trying to "win hearts and minds" in the first place? Why waste our time being sensitive to their culture at all?
    The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated.
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    Re: Female U.S. Soldiers in Afghanistan ‘Encouraged’ to Wear Hijab

    Quote Originally Posted by X Factor View Post
    If we're not interested in changing the culture at all, what's the point in trying to "win hearts and minds" in the first place? Why waste our time being sensitive to their culture at all?
    You raise a very good point. It goes precisely to the heart of the debate about whether you can establish a functional democracy in a culture and region that is stuck back in the Middle Ages. We are trying to COIN our way into nation-building in a country that has no nation and is based on a tribal culture.
    Last edited by StillBallin75; 04-03-11 at 01:30 PM.
    Nobody who wins a war indulges in a bifurcated definition of victory. War is a political act; victory and defeat have meaning only in political terms. A country incapable of achieving its political objectives at an acceptable cost is losing the war, regardless of battlefield events.

    Bifurcating victory (e.g. winning militarily, losing politically) is a useful salve for defeated armies. The "stab in the back" narrative helped take the sting out of failure for German generals after WWI and their American counterparts after Vietnam.

    All the same, it's nonsense. To paraphrase Vince Lombardi, show me a political loser, and I'll show you a loser.
    - Colonel Paul Yingling

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    Re: Female U.S. Soldiers in Afghanistan ‘Encouraged’ to Wear Hijab

    Quote Originally Posted by theplaydrive View Post
    You realize that we are on THEIR territory...When people come here, we expect them to respect our culture. When we go there, it's reasonable that others expect us to respect their culture...This isn't even that serious of an issue.
    No, that's not quite true.

    When Muslims arrive in western societies they often expect to carry on with their traditions, and those who might questions some of these traditions are frequently called "bigots".

    Would Muslims be called "bigots" if they insisted foreigner women cover their heads?

    I suspect not.

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    Re: Female U.S. Soldiers in Afghanistan ‘Encouraged’ to Wear Hijab

    Quote Originally Posted by StillBallin75 View Post
    Not so much respect, as recognize that we're not there to change their culture because we have more pressing things to worry about. I don't think wearing a hijab in and of itself is oppressive though, it's just unsexy.
    It's a symbol of who is in real control, not necessarily military control.

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    Re: Female U.S. Soldiers in Afghanistan ‘Encouraged’ to Wear Hijab

    Quote Originally Posted by StillBallin75 View Post
    They could, but as the saying goes, "when in Rome..." Unless the safety of female troops is compromised, I don't see how it can hurt more than it can help.
    Maybe, but we aren't there to spare anyones feelings. We're there to fight a blood thirsty war. Wars are ugly. And scarves have no place in them. But, I concede, if our female soldiers are okay it, and it aids them in their endeavors, then what the heck........No problem, so long as it doesn't work into some huge distraction.

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