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Thread: Female U.S. Soldiers in Afghanistan ‘Encouraged’ to Wear Hijab

  1. #171
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    Re: Female U.S. Soldiers in Afghanistan ‘Encouraged’ to Wear Hijab

    Quote Originally Posted by StillBallin75 View Post
    They could, but as the saying goes, "when in Rome..."
    I'm not accusing you ofthis, Ballin, but there are countless hypocrites who only advocate the "when in Rome" when they are Rome. When WE are Rome, the same people are suddenly multiculturalists who think it is an act of racism and xenophobia to expect people to westernize. I have read the very same people who stronly advocate for Sharia Law in Britain or against the Burka Bans in France offer this same "when in Rome" excuse for supporting the misogyny here, so the convenience to the argument is often a stronger motivator than the committment to the principle.
    "you're better off on Stormfront discussing how evil brown men are taking innocent white flowers." Infinite Chaos

  2. #172
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    Re: Female U.S. Soldiers in Afghanistan ‘Encouraged’ to Wear Hijab

    Quote Originally Posted by StillBallin75 View Post
    You mean Banana-Wars style COIN?
    Yep. Been reading the Official Small Wars Manual.

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    Re: Female U.S. Soldiers in Afghanistan ‘Encouraged’ to Wear Hijab

    Quote Originally Posted by Gardener View Post
    I'm not accusing you ofthis, Ballin, but there are countless hypocrites who only advocate the "when in Rome" when they are Rome. When WE are Rome, the same people are suddenly multiculturalists who think it is an act of racism and xenophobia to expect people to westernize. I have read the very same people who stronly advocate for Sharia Law in Britain or against the Burka Bans in France offer this same "when in Rome" excuse for supporting the misogyny here, so the convenience to the argument is often a stronger motivator than the committment to the principle.
    I've elaborated my thoughts on the issue of multiculturalism vs. assimilation elsewhere, and I'm glad to discuss this with you another time.

    However with regard to this issue, the difference is that we are an open society with a pluralistic culture, while Afghanistan is not. Moreover, it's us fighting a war in Afghanistan, not the other way around. There are practical implications to consider.

    I told X factor in a previous post that if I were a SOF trooper on the ground right now, I'd absolutely loathe the notion of wearing a beard. However, if my commanders thought that it would make a difference, I would do it without complaint if it helped to accomplish the mission.
    Last edited by StillBallin75; 04-03-11 at 12:57 PM.
    Nobody who wins a war indulges in a bifurcated definition of victory. War is a political act; victory and defeat have meaning only in political terms. A country incapable of achieving its political objectives at an acceptable cost is losing the war, regardless of battlefield events.

    Bifurcating victory (e.g. winning militarily, losing politically) is a useful salve for defeated armies. The "stab in the back" narrative helped take the sting out of failure for German generals after WWI and their American counterparts after Vietnam.

    All the same, it's nonsense. To paraphrase Vince Lombardi, show me a political loser, and I'll show you a loser.
    - Colonel Paul Yingling

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    Re: Female U.S. Soldiers in Afghanistan ‘Encouraged’ to Wear Hijab

    Quote Originally Posted by cpgrad08 View Post
    Yep. Been reading the Official Small Wars Manual.
    lol that's old school man. I haven't read it yet, but I'd be interesting to see how it differs from Petraeus' FM 3-24 Counterinsurgency manual. 70 years is plenty of time for the nature of warfare to evolve.
    Nobody who wins a war indulges in a bifurcated definition of victory. War is a political act; victory and defeat have meaning only in political terms. A country incapable of achieving its political objectives at an acceptable cost is losing the war, regardless of battlefield events.

    Bifurcating victory (e.g. winning militarily, losing politically) is a useful salve for defeated armies. The "stab in the back" narrative helped take the sting out of failure for German generals after WWI and their American counterparts after Vietnam.

    All the same, it's nonsense. To paraphrase Vince Lombardi, show me a political loser, and I'll show you a loser.
    - Colonel Paul Yingling

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    Re: Female U.S. Soldiers in Afghanistan ‘Encouraged’ to Wear Hijab

    Quote Originally Posted by StillBallin75 View Post
    lol that's old school man. I haven't read it yet, but I'd be interesting to see how it differs from Petraeus' FM 3-24 Counterinsurgency manual. 70 years is plenty of time for the nature of warfare to evolve.
    It's wasn't really change. Accept for the winning hearts and minds.

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    Re: Female U.S. Soldiers in Afghanistan ‘Encouraged’ to Wear Hijab

    Quote Originally Posted by StillBallin75 View Post

    However with regard to this issue, the difference is that we are an open society with a pluralistic culture, while Afghanistan is not. Moreover, it's us fighting a war in Afghanistan, not the other way around. There are practical implications to consider.
    So then "practical" wins out over "principle"?
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    Re: Female U.S. Soldiers in Afghanistan ‘Encouraged’ to Wear Hijab

    Quote Originally Posted by cpgrad08 View Post
    It's wasn't really change. Accept for the winning hearts and minds.
    If it doesn't mention winning hearts and minds, what do the authors say should be the central strategy?
    Nobody who wins a war indulges in a bifurcated definition of victory. War is a political act; victory and defeat have meaning only in political terms. A country incapable of achieving its political objectives at an acceptable cost is losing the war, regardless of battlefield events.

    Bifurcating victory (e.g. winning militarily, losing politically) is a useful salve for defeated armies. The "stab in the back" narrative helped take the sting out of failure for German generals after WWI and their American counterparts after Vietnam.

    All the same, it's nonsense. To paraphrase Vince Lombardi, show me a political loser, and I'll show you a loser.
    - Colonel Paul Yingling

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    Re: Female U.S. Soldiers in Afghanistan ‘Encouraged’ to Wear Hijab

    Quote Originally Posted by X Factor View Post
    So then "practical" wins out over "principle"?
    In this case, yes, that's how I would sum it up. We're there to win a war, not as feminist advocates.

    Edit: On a personal level however, I DO think forcing women to cover their bodies from head to toe is moronic. And if it is not a choice, then it is oppressive.
    Last edited by StillBallin75; 04-03-11 at 01:03 PM.
    Nobody who wins a war indulges in a bifurcated definition of victory. War is a political act; victory and defeat have meaning only in political terms. A country incapable of achieving its political objectives at an acceptable cost is losing the war, regardless of battlefield events.

    Bifurcating victory (e.g. winning militarily, losing politically) is a useful salve for defeated armies. The "stab in the back" narrative helped take the sting out of failure for German generals after WWI and their American counterparts after Vietnam.

    All the same, it's nonsense. To paraphrase Vince Lombardi, show me a political loser, and I'll show you a loser.
    - Colonel Paul Yingling

  9. #179
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    Re: Female U.S. Soldiers in Afghanistan ‘Encouraged’ to Wear Hijab

    Quote Originally Posted by StillBallin75 View Post
    If it doesn't mention winning hearts and minds, what do the authors say should be the central strategy?
    Which Manual are you talking about?

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    Re: Female U.S. Soldiers in Afghanistan ‘Encouraged’ to Wear Hijab

    Quote Originally Posted by cpgrad08 View Post
    Which Manual are you talking about?
    Small Wars Manual.
    Nobody who wins a war indulges in a bifurcated definition of victory. War is a political act; victory and defeat have meaning only in political terms. A country incapable of achieving its political objectives at an acceptable cost is losing the war, regardless of battlefield events.

    Bifurcating victory (e.g. winning militarily, losing politically) is a useful salve for defeated armies. The "stab in the back" narrative helped take the sting out of failure for German generals after WWI and their American counterparts after Vietnam.

    All the same, it's nonsense. To paraphrase Vince Lombardi, show me a political loser, and I'll show you a loser.
    - Colonel Paul Yingling

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