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Thread: Female U.S. Soldiers in Afghanistan ‘Encouraged’ to Wear Hijab

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    Re: Female U.S. Soldiers in Afghanistan ‘Encouraged’ to Wear Hijab

    Quote Originally Posted by TacticalEvilDan View Post
    I was very clearly addressing your comment, "Wearing a hijab may not always mean subjugation of women, but you can't say that it never does." Please address what I said in the context which I said it.
    You said you pointed out the absurdity of my question, so I reposted my question (it's that thing that ends with "?"). Now, as to my comment, if it's absurd, it means you believe the hijab is never about subjugation, and I've proven with quotes and links that that's false. Care to try again?



    You can knock it off with the misdirection anytime now. Unless, of course, you're all out of argument on the subject.
    I've made my point.
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    Re: Female U.S. Soldiers in Afghanistan ‘Encouraged’ to Wear Hijab

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    It's not an absurd question, but I think a flawed one. I do not respect muslim beliefs personally, while respecting the right of countries like Afghanistan to choose their beliefs. Trying to do little things to fit in and be more accepted by the locals is not the same thing as saying "I think your beliefs are great".

    Further, the importance of things like this cannot be overstated. If the populace has a positive opinion of our troops, it makes the job over there just a little bit easier. And that is part of a soldiers job. This is not an affirmation of Muslim beliefs.
    How is it not an affirmation of Muslim beliefs? Aren't we, in effect, communicating that it's preferable to have women dress in a way that sets them apart from their male counterparts, than to acknowledge them as being just as much soldiers as the guys?
    The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated.
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    Re: Female U.S. Soldiers in Afghanistan ‘Encouraged’ to Wear Hijab

    Quote Originally Posted by X Factor View Post
    You said you pointed out the absurdity of my question, so I reposted my question (it's that thing that ends with "?"). Now, as to my comment, if it's absurd, it means you believe the hijab is never about subjugation, and I've proven with quotes and links that that's false. Care to try again?
    You have failed to address what I actually said, which was:

    Quote Originally Posted by TacticalEvilDan View Post
    Do you seriously expect me to believe that it would mean subjugation if a female soldier in the United States military wore one out of respect -- whether she did it because she was ordered to or because she felt it was appropriate to?
    I asked you that question because that's on the topic of this thread. Get back to me when you have a reply.

    Quote Originally Posted by X Factor View Post
    I've made my point.
    If your point was to demonstrate that the best you can do in response to my very relevant, on-topic question is to misdirect, then yes you most certainly have.
    I'm already gearing up for Finger Vote 2014.

    Just for reference, means my post was a giant steaming pile of sarcasm.

  4. #104
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    Re: Female U.S. Soldiers in Afghanistan ‘Encouraged’ to Wear Hijab

    Quote Originally Posted by X Factor View Post
    How is it not an affirmation of Muslim beliefs? Aren't we, in effect, communicating that it's preferable to have women dress in a way that sets them apart from their male counterparts, than to acknowledge them as being just as much soldiers as the guys?
    I think it's got less to do with communication, principles, and sending a message than it has with the practical nature of counterinsurgency. You win hearts and minds by attempting to adopt local customs and adapting to culture. In such a case whether we think making women wear headscarves is oppressive or subjugating, is irrelevant. We're there to win a war, we're not there as a feminist group.
    Last edited by StillBallin75; 04-02-11 at 04:18 PM.
    Nobody who wins a war indulges in a bifurcated definition of victory. War is a political act; victory and defeat have meaning only in political terms. A country incapable of achieving its political objectives at an acceptable cost is losing the war, regardless of battlefield events.

    Bifurcating victory (e.g. winning militarily, losing politically) is a useful salve for defeated armies. The "stab in the back" narrative helped take the sting out of failure for German generals after WWI and their American counterparts after Vietnam.

    All the same, it's nonsense. To paraphrase Vince Lombardi, show me a political loser, and I'll show you a loser.
    - Colonel Paul Yingling

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    Re: Female U.S. Soldiers in Afghanistan ‘Encouraged’ to Wear Hijab

    We are still fighting about this? It seems simple enough. The commanding officer of troops on the ground thought it wise to suggest. He didn't make it an official order. It's not some crazy lib out there doing this. Let the man on ground do his job.

  6. #106
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    Re: Female U.S. Soldiers in Afghanistan ‘Encouraged’ to Wear Hijab

    Quote Originally Posted by X Factor View Post
    Uh huh, and as a sailor, where you ever asked to actually alter your uniform? I thought military uniforms were strictly regulated. Is that not the case?

    Wearing a hijab may not always mean subjugation of women, but you can't say that it never does. Is everything worthy of respect simply because it's a cultural practice?



    Hijab - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    uniforms ate often modified for unusual or extreme conditions.

    dont we expect people to adopt american culture and traditions when they come here?
    Last edited by mac; 04-02-11 at 04:21 PM.
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    Re: Female U.S. Soldiers in Afghanistan ‘Encouraged’ to Wear Hijab

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    Or, we can just kill off all the assholes. Problem solved.
    Hot dam y'all, ah swar! Who'd be left to run the gubbmint.

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    Re: Female U.S. Soldiers in Afghanistan ‘Encouraged’ to Wear Hijab

    Quote Originally Posted by mac View Post
    uniforms ate often modified for unusual or extreme conditions.

    dont we expect people to adopt american culture and traditions when they come here?
    Like these conditions?

    Nobody who wins a war indulges in a bifurcated definition of victory. War is a political act; victory and defeat have meaning only in political terms. A country incapable of achieving its political objectives at an acceptable cost is losing the war, regardless of battlefield events.

    Bifurcating victory (e.g. winning militarily, losing politically) is a useful salve for defeated armies. The "stab in the back" narrative helped take the sting out of failure for German generals after WWI and their American counterparts after Vietnam.

    All the same, it's nonsense. To paraphrase Vince Lombardi, show me a political loser, and I'll show you a loser.
    - Colonel Paul Yingling

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    Re: Female U.S. Soldiers in Afghanistan ‘Encouraged’ to Wear Hijab

    Quote Originally Posted by mac View Post
    uniforms ate often modified for unusual or extreme conditions.

    dont we expect people to adopt american culture and traditions when they come here?
    Mac raises a good point. I expect this was what the burqa debate in France was all about last year.
    Nobody who wins a war indulges in a bifurcated definition of victory. War is a political act; victory and defeat have meaning only in political terms. A country incapable of achieving its political objectives at an acceptable cost is losing the war, regardless of battlefield events.

    Bifurcating victory (e.g. winning militarily, losing politically) is a useful salve for defeated armies. The "stab in the back" narrative helped take the sting out of failure for German generals after WWI and their American counterparts after Vietnam.

    All the same, it's nonsense. To paraphrase Vince Lombardi, show me a political loser, and I'll show you a loser.
    - Colonel Paul Yingling

  10. #110
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    Re: Female U.S. Soldiers in Afghanistan ‘Encouraged’ to Wear Hijab

    Quote Originally Posted by X Factor View Post
    How is it not an affirmation of Muslim beliefs? Aren't we, in effect, communicating that it's preferable to have women dress in a way that sets them apart from their male counterparts, than to acknowledge them as being just as much soldiers as the guys?
    No, it is showing that we want to fit in and be accepted by the host community.
    We became a great nation not because we are a nation of cynics. We became a great nation because we are a nation of believers - Lindsey Graham

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    Uh oh Megyn...your vagina witchcraft is about ready to be exposed.

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