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Schakowsky tears into Cantor for saying Social Security ‘cannot exist’ in a future Am

Re: Schakowsky tears into Cantor for saying Social Security ‘cannot exist’ in a futur

Taylor said:
That's a mathematical impossibility. Your generation already spent the money that should have gone toward your social security benefts on other things and now you want to double dip.

As such, you're not asking us to "work just like you did," you're asking us to work a lot harder than you did AND to forego a much more sensible retirement solution than SS because you've been so irresponsible. And you want to paint *US* as the heartless ones.
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Actually, last generation spent their money paying for social security for the previous generation...just like we are currently paying for the previous generation. The concern is that we are reaching the tipping point where there will not be enough people or income tomorrow and in the futre for future generations. Social Security today is solvent. As I understand it it is expected to be solvent well into the 2020's. After that...unless there is massive change...not so much.
 
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Re: Schakowsky tears into Cantor for saying Social Security ‘cannot exist’ in a futur

UtahBill said:
The problem with investing your SS funds in the stock market and hoping to have more retirement income is too obvious.
Wall Street is not a level playing field.
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However voluntarily choosing to invest a portion of your SS investment in a secure market (similar to what congress currently invests in) remains a stable long term option. It impacts only the individual that opts in to such a program meaning only that individual assumes the risk.
 
Re: Schakowsky tears into Cantor for saying Social Security ‘cannot exist’ in a futur

VanceMack said:
Actually, last generation spent their money paying for social security for the previous generation...just like we are currently paying for the previous generation> the concern is that we are reaching the tipping point where there will not be enough people or income tomorrow and in the futre for future generations. Social Security today is solvent. As I understand it it is expected to be solvent well into the 2020's. After that...unless there is massive change...not so much.
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not to worry, we will privatize and invest SS funds until all the money is gone, ending up in the pockets of the wealthy, the ones who are savvy investors.

I am not in favor of a socialialistic economy, not until we try a few other things first.
There should be substantial penalties for betrayal of the public trust. ANYBODY attempting to enrich themselves at the expense of the public, once caught, forfeits all he has accumulated, and goes to jail for at least 5 years, then on probation the rest of his life.
Plus he can no longer work in any job that involves the handling or investing of money not actually his own.
 
Re: Schakowsky tears into Cantor for saying Social Security ‘cannot exist’ in a futur

UtahBill said:
not to worry, we will privatize and invest SS funds until all the money is gone, ending up in the pockets of the wealthy, the ones who are savvy investors.

I am not in favor of a socialialistic economy, not until we try a few other things first.
There should be substantial penalties for betrayal of the public trust. ANYBODY attempting to enrich themselves at the expense of the public, once caught, forfeits all he has accumulated, and goes to jail for at least 5 years, then on probation the rest of his life.
Plus he can no longer work in any job that involves the handling or investing of money not actually his own.
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The earlier privatization proposals involved giving people the option to invest as much as 3% of their total investment. 3%. No one knows what the solution is yet. People continue to rail against the proposed solutions while offering none themselves. madness is knowing what you are doing is killing you and yet being unwilling to do anything about it and bitching about those that are.
 
Re: Schakowsky tears into Cantor for saying Social Security ‘cannot exist’ in a futur

VanceMack said:
However voluntarily choosing to invest a portion of your SS investment in a secure market (similar to what congress currently invests in) remains a stable long term option. It impacts only the individual that opts in to such a program meaning only that individual assumes the risk.
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we don't have a secure market...
even Congress stood to lose if they let AIG fail, hence the bailout....
Individuals cannot control risk once a crooked company has their money..by the time it is found to be crooked, a lot of individual investors have been robbed. The crooks steal a little from many, and over time, it adds up to grandma and grandpa having to work an extra decade.
I invested for a few years with a brokerage connected to a large financial institution, and they cost me a lot of money giving out bad advice, some of which conflicted with current Wall street advice that I read in the Wall Street Journal.....
Never again....
 
Re: Schakowsky tears into Cantor for saying Social Security ‘cannot exist’ in a futur

VanceMack said:
Actually, last generation spent their money paying for social security for the previous generation...
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Sure, some of it.

VanceMack said:
The concern is that we are reaching the tipping point where there will not be enough people or income tomorrow and in the futre for future generations.
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There's not enough money because they spent the surplus.
 
Re: Schakowsky tears into Cantor for saying Social Security ‘cannot exist’ in a futur

VanceMack said:
The earlier privatization proposals involved giving people the option to invest as much as 3% of their total investment. 3%. No one knows what the solution is yet. People continue to rail against the proposed solutions while offering none themselves. madness is knowing what you are doing is killing you and yet being unwilling to do anything about it and bitching about those that are.
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In the book, a random walk down wall street, the author says that "long term, real estate is just as effective"....but that was before the current real estate market crash...
when there is tons of money involved, the cockroaches gather....

I have my methods, and they work for me....
 
Re: Schakowsky tears into Cantor for saying Social Security ‘cannot exist’ in a futur

VanceMack said:
The earlier privatization proposals involved giving people the option to invest as much as 3% of their total investment. 3%. No one knows what the solution is yet. People continue to rail against the proposed solutions while offering none themselves. madness is knowing what you are doing is killing you and yet being unwilling to do anything about it and bitching about those that are.
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madness is knowing that congress KNOWS how crooked Wall Street is, but does nothing about it....
Insider trading still happens, stocks are touted by dishonest brokerage houses to suck in the small investors when the big investors want to sell, companies cook their books to look better than they are....
Back before the big crash, 1929, media types were paid by check to tout stocks. Some of the reporters kept records. There was an obvious paper trail. After the crash, they had new rules. All that means is that the last method used to screw the public is harder to implement, so a new method needs to be created....
 
Re: Schakowsky tears into Cantor for saying Social Security ‘cannot exist’ in a futur

UtahBill said:
we don't have a secure market...
even Congress stood to lose if they let AIG fail, hence the bailout....
Individuals cannot control risk once a crooked company has their money..by the time it is found to be crooked, a lot of individual investors have been robbed. The crooks steal a little from many, and over time, it adds up to grandma and grandpa having to work an extra decade.
I invested for a few years with a brokerage connected to a large financial institution, and they cost me a lot of money giving out bad advice, some of which conflicted with current Wall street advice that I read in the Wall Street Journal.....
Never again....
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But if you tie private SS investments into the congressional investments you can bet they will never go TU.
 
Re: Schakowsky tears into Cantor for saying Social Security ‘cannot exist’ in a futur

Taylor said:
Sure, some of it.


There's not enough money because they spent the surplus.
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I dont believe they have spent it, i believe they did what they always do...borrowed against it. Which is a pretty clear indicator that congress and irresposnbile spending is and always has been the problem.
 
Re: Schakowsky tears into Cantor for saying Social Security ‘cannot exist’ in a futur

UtahBill said:
In the book, a random walk down wall street, the author says that "long term, real estate is just as effective"....but that was before the current real estate market crash...
when there is tons of money involved, the cockroaches gather....

I have my methods, and they work for me....
Click to expand...

Long term is long term. It survives radar blips. Real estate will still be long term viable.
 
Re: Schakowsky tears into Cantor for saying Social Security ‘cannot exist’ in a futur

UtahBill said:
madness is knowing that congress KNOWS how crooked Wall Street is, but does nothing about it....
Insider trading still happens, stocks are touted by dishonest brokerage houses to suck in the small investors when the big investors want to sell, companies cook their books to look better than they are....
Back before the big crash, 1929, media types were paid by check to tout stocks. Some of the reporters kept records. There was an obvious paper trail. After the crash, they had new rules. All that means is that the last method used to screw the public is harder to implement, so a new method needs to be created....
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And that still says nothing about the pending social security problems or a proposed solution.
 
Re: Schakowsky tears into Cantor for saying Social Security ‘cannot exist’ in a futur

VanceMack said:
But if you tie private SS investments into the congressional investments you can bet they will never go TU.
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perhaps....certainly an elected official wouldn't take risks on his long term investments unless he gets a really BIG BRIBE that makes the risk to his job and freedom worthwhile....
 
Re: Schakowsky tears into Cantor for saying Social Security ‘cannot exist’ in a futur

UtahBill said:
perhaps....certainly an elected official wouldn't take risks on his long term investments unless he gets a really BIG BRIBE that makes the risk to his job and freedom worthwhile....
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As if THAT would ever happen... :roll: ;)
 
Re: Schakowsky tears into Cantor for saying Social Security ‘cannot exist’ in a futur

VanceMack said:
And that still says nothing about the pending social security problems or a proposed solution.
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My personal solution has always been as follows...

Lots of eggs in multiple baskets, don't trust any one source of retirement income to be there, get an education that makes good money, don't spend it faster than you earn it, stay out of debt where feasible, no cars you can't pay cash for, pay off the house mortgage early, certainly be debt free by age 55 plus have substantial savings. Credit card debt is to be considered a sin, if not a crime.
Much of my investing was in the stock market, and it worked well thru the 70's, but since then not so well. If we can get ethincs back into the system, I will change my attitude about Wall Street, but not until there are penalties in place that actually discourage dishonest and/or unethical behavior....
 
Re: Schakowsky tears into Cantor for saying Social Security ‘cannot exist’ in a futur

UtahBill said:
My personal solution has always been as follows...

Lots of eggs in multiple baskets, don't trust any one source of retirement income to be there, get an education that makes good money, don't spend it faster than you earn it, stay out of debt where feasible, no cars you can't pay cash for, pay off the house mortgage early, certainly be debt free by age 55 plus have substantial savings. Credit card debt is to be considered a sin, if not a crime.
Much of my investing was in the stock market, and it worked well thru the 70's, but since then not so well. If we can get ethincs back into the system, I will change my attitude about Wall Street, but not until there are penalties in place that actually discourage dishonest and/or unethical behavior....
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My investments are pretty diverse and secure. Im not looking for individual home runs. but I have no problem investing in pharms, oil, and foreign currency on top of federally backed market funds and property. I figure if the global and US markets tank beyond recovery nothing but land will matter. Well...land and a lifetime supply of seeds, bullets, and fishing tackle.
 
Re: Schakowsky tears into Cantor for saying Social Security ‘cannot exist’ in a futur

VanceMack said:
And that still says nothing about the pending social security problems or a proposed solution.
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My solution for the nation, an abandonment of workers.....tell them they are on their own from now on. You get to keep whatever retirement funds already accumulated, being vested, but in the future you take care of things yourself. Some will end up with all one plan or the other, some will have a combination, til the time when all the old plans have expired.

Your employer pays no more benefits, but pays you what it was costing the company. You then buy your own healthcare plan, and fund your own retirement. I would phase out Social security, but not medicare. None of us can plan for the unknown, and certainly many of us will have large medical bills in our later years....
I would tax the hell out of tobacco, likewise alcoholic beverages.
Then I would legalize marijuana and tax the hell out of that. All other drugs gets you free room and board at the county "farm"....
 
Re: Schakowsky tears into Cantor for saying Social Security ‘cannot exist’ in a futur

VanceMack said:
My investments are pretty diverse and secure. Im not looking for individual home runs. but I have no problem investing in pharms, oil, and foreign currency on top of federally backed market funds and property. I figure if the global and US markets tank beyond recovery nothing but land will matter. Well...land and a lifetime supply of seeds, bullets, and fishing tackle.
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A ton of rice, a water purification system and/or solar still, lots of bouillon cubes, and home grown veggies.....and some chickens.
You live near the ocean? Lots of fish there....
 
Re: Schakowsky tears into Cantor for saying Social Security ‘cannot exist’ in a futur

VanceMack said:
My investments are pretty diverse and secure. Im not looking for individual home runs. but I have no problem investing in pharms, oil, and foreign currency on top of federally backed market funds and property. I figure if the global and US markets tank beyond recovery nothing but land will matter. Well...land and a lifetime supply of seeds, bullets, and fishing tackle.
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We absolutely need to nationalize health care, the pharmaceutical and oil companies, then open up the American market to foreign manufactured drugs, if we can let foreign companies do business in America selling X,Y and Z products then we need to open up the market to ensure competitiveness across the board, we can't be selective with protectionism
 
Re: Schakowsky tears into Cantor for saying Social Security ‘cannot exist’ in a futur

UtahBill said:
You and I both know lots of people who will spend all they earn and a little bit more, and forego saving for their retirement years.....
So it would have to be forced savings.....
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i agree (though i find it sad). which is why under the plan i posted, it is.
 
Re: Schakowsky tears into Cantor for saying Social Security ‘cannot exist’ in a futur

EarlzP said:
Our SS money was borrowed not stolen, the government borrowed our Federal income tax dollars to save Wall Street and the Banks
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actually they've been borrowing it for decades. it went to buy the Congressman Smith Highway Overpass that nobody in your town uses.

and we want every cent of that back with interest
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well, assuming that aliens don't land and bring us magical technology that doubles the size of our economy overnight, you're not going to get it.
 
Re: Schakowsky tears into Cantor for saying Social Security ‘cannot exist’ in a futur

The solution to our nation's Social Security problem is jobs, Jobs, JOBS! More specific, get MORE people paying into the system than those receiving benefits from it coupled with STOPPING Congress from borrowing from the Social Security Trust Fund, and Social Security will be solvent for a long time to come. But as long as there are more people receive Social Security (Disability/SSI) who don't pay into it, there will continue to be problems with the system and those individuals who, like myself, have paid into the system including those young individuals who are just now entering the workforce, will continue to bear the brunt of the burden to our government's misdeeds.

Sidenote: This is probably one of the few areas I agree with Conservatives on. Leave my Social Security entitlement alone! I've paid into it for well over 25 years. I've lived a very health life and hope to be just as healthy throughout my golden years. I want MY MONEY when I decide it's time for me to retire, and when it comes time for me to collect I want what I'm entitled to. Don't means test me!! It's not up to the government to decide whether or not I am worthy of the funds I've allowed the government to hold for me until I retire. So, no!!! Don't mess with my Social Security.
 
Re: Schakowsky tears into Cantor for saying Social Security ‘cannot exist’ in a futur

Objective Voice said:
The solution to our nation's Social Security problem is jobs, Jobs, JOBS! More specific, get MORE people paying into the system than those receiving benefits from it coupled with STOPPING Congress from borrowing from the Social Security Trust Fund, and Social Security will be solvent for a long time to come. But as long as there are more people receive Social Security (Disability/SSI) who don't pay into it, there will continue to be problems with the system and those individuals who, like myself, have paid into the system including those young individuals who are just now entering the workforce, will continue to bear the brunt of the burden to our government's misdeeds.

Sidenote: This is probably one of the few areas I agree with Conservatives on. Leave my Social Security entitlement alone! I've paid into it for well over 25 years. I've lived a very health life and hope to be just as healthy throughout my golden years. I want MY MONEY when I decide it's time for me to retire, and when it comes time for me to collect I want what I'm entitled to. Don't means test me!! It's not up to the government to decide whether or not I am worthy of the funds I've allowed the government to hold for me until I retire. So, no!!! Don't mess with my Social Security.
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and the more years you pay in, the more you will feel this way....
I started paying in 1963....
BUT, as long as they grandfather current payers, we need to abandon it for new workers as they come of age. A certain "floor" or safety net needs to remain in place to help cover bad years for the economy, but if employers will pay their 7.5% to the employee, and the employee gets to put their savings in a taxfree account (now and later), more people will save for their own future.
Question is, how do we deal with those who will just spend it instead of save?
One possible way, make them report the amount of savings put into their accounts every year, on their tax return. IF they don't contribute to their retirement account, they pay a penalty...
 
Re: Schakowsky tears into Cantor for saying Social Security ‘cannot exist’ in a futur

cpwill said:
actually they've been borrowing it for decades. it went to buy the Congressman Smith Highway Overpass that nobody in your town uses.



well, assuming that aliens don't land and bring us magical technology that doubles the size of our economy overnight, you're not going to get it.
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those aliens come here and probe our butts, why can't they share a bit of their technology with us? OTOH, maybe they are probing us for OUR knowledge? Based on how we live, they might be thinking our brains are up our butts????
 
Re: Schakowsky tears into Cantor for saying Social Security ‘cannot exist’ in a futur

UtahBill said:
and the more years you pay in, the more you will feel this way....
I started paying in 1963....
BUT, as long as they grandfather current payers, we need to abandon it for new workers as they come of age. A certain "floor" or safety net needs to remain in place to help cover bad years for the economy, but if employers will pay their 7.5% to the employee, and the employee gets to put their savings in a taxfree account (now and later), more people will save for their own future.
Question is, how do we deal with those who will just spend it instead of save?
One possible way, make them report the amount of savings put into their accounts every year, on their tax return. IF they don't contribute to their retirement account, they pay a penalty...
Click to expand...

Hmmmm...where have we heard this "take responsibility for yourself or pay a penalty" line from recently?

Oh, yeah...health care reform law and the individual mandate.

Sarcasm aside, I suppose there could be a shared responsibility between government and private citizens over social security, but any attempt to privatize same entirely would never work primarly due to the high risk associated with volitile markets. If the 2008 recession taught retirees anything it was not to put all their eggs in one basket. That said, 401K plans already come with a penalty for early withdrawl. I suppose if people were given the opportunity to invest up to half of their social security deduction maybe more people would take the risk. I'd say you'd have to have the safety net of a 401K plan or guaranteed pension plan to remove the fear people would have in allowing the stock market to absorb their investment dollars and see nothing in return due to their enormous risk taking. Maybe market investors should be made to invest with caution when using retirement funds and held liable for taking undue risk. I don't know what the answer is, but I do know that most laymen who don't know that much about the stock market or investing and, as such, will never take the gamble if it's a "all or nothing" approach w/privatizing social security. Risk aversion is the key.
 
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