On a Senate Call, a Glimpse of Marching Orders

Re: Chuck Schumer Busted On Phone

What if...? said:

I do think this behavior crosses the line far too frequently. But I feel education is the solution. If everyone is aware how it works it won't work well enough to use any longer.

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I do not disagree with that. However, while this and the Gingrich example are further than I would like to see it, it is something even most of us here use, albeit without thinking about it in advance. We frame the debate in the terms we want to see it in. The health care debate was a great example of both sides doing just that. On the right, we had "socialized medicine", and "Obamacare" and "death panels" and "government run health care", and on the left you had "dishonest attacks" and "do nothing" and "wants you to just die" all aimed at the other side.

Pointing out just one or the other is pure hypocrisy, both sides do it, and do it alot. Further, it is also done in reverse, using appropriate positive terms to represent what we on each side stand for.

It can be honest or dishonest depending on the claim, and sometimes even contradictory claims can be true. Look at what this thread is about. To me, the Tea Party is an extreme, fringe group. To the Tea Party, they are representing the common American? Which is true? Some of both.

Re: Chuck Schumer Busted On Phone

Redress said:

I do not disagree with that. However, while this and the Gingrich example are further than I would like to see it, it is something even most of us here use, albeit without thinking about it in advance. We frame the debate in the terms we want to see it in. The health care debate was a great example of both sides doing just that. On the right, we had "socialized medicine", and "Obamacare" and "death panels" and "government run health care", and on the left you had "dishonest attacks" and "do nothing" and "wants you to just die" all aimed at the other side.

Pointing out just one or the other is pure hypocrisy, both sides do it, and do it alot. Further, it is also done in reverse, using appropriate positive terms to represent what we on each side stand for.

It can be honest or dishonest depending on the claim, and sometimes even contradictory claims can be true. Look at what this thread is about. To me, the Tea Party is an extreme, fringe group. To the Tea Party, they are representing the common American? Which is true? Some of both.

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Exactly. The gray nature of the subject requires careful analysis.

I think the primary concern is those we also see here who believe these things completely.

Who mistake "the map for the territory".

The people of this country are actually diverging on recent history. Have fundamentally different memories of what happened in the recent past.

By this mechanism. The monkeying with words thing isn't subtle and unpredictable. The link in my sig goes into this in great, non-partisan detail.

Its science, and we should be armng our children against it. Before we get the next anorexia/bulimia side effect.

Re: Chuck Schumer Busted On Phone

Redress said:

Please see my post earlier in the thread I merged yours into. Summary: Newt Gingrich had a memo where he explained exactly how to do things like this back in the 90's. It's called framing the debate, and is not dishonest exactly, it's just using the language.

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You know what though, this particular talking point is crap, because it's not "framing a debate", it's actually an attempt to drive a wedge between Republicans and the T party. I laughed this morning, though, because I heard some Dem, I think it was Harry Reid, talking about the budget battle and those "extreme" T partiers as if we all didn't know where he got that from.

Re: Chuck Schumer Busted On Phone

X Factor said:

You know what though, this particular talking point is crap, because it's not "framing a debate", it's actually an attempt to drive a wedge between Republicans and the T party. I laughed this morning, though, because I heard some Dem, I think it was Harry Reid, talking about the budget battle and those "extreme" T partiers as if we all didn't know where he got that from.

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This is doing nothing more than has been done probably throughout history in using negative power words to describe those you disagree with, and positive power words to describe those you agree with. Your comments are a strange combination of naive and conspiracy crap. You do have the usual conservative victim mentality down well though(see what I did there?).

Re: Chuck Schumer Busted On Phone

I have to agree with redress that its something thats been done many times over by bothsides. Schumer is playing to some of the polls that say a percentage of independents feel the new teaparty candidates are to far right, hence the extreme tag.
As Frank Lundt the pollster pointed out, the word radical is far more effective for getting attention that the word Extreme.