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Thread: When a Million Dollars Just Won't Cut it

  1. #21
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    Re: When a Million Dollars Just Won't Cut it

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    I was comparing an individual income of $1 mil to a middle class family income of $50,000. If you have assets that means you have more wealth than your income. What assests does a family making $50,000 own anyway compared to the assets of an individual making a million? If you have assets and need to put food on the table, sell some assets. The middle class does not have that option, their option is to become poor.

    The middle class is declining into the poor, not ascending into millionaire-hood. Our regressive revision of the country's progressive tax system in 1981, and again in 2003, has stacked the deck against them.
    Until the day the rich pay the same % of their taxes as everyone else, our tax code is progressive.
    I grew up in a family usually not making even 40k a year. My parents managed to save and now they got to over a million dollars, through prudence and good investment.
    I'm sorry, but if you make 50k a year and don't save ANY of it, I have no sympathy for you.
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    Re: When a Million Dollars Just Won't Cut it


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    Re: When a Million Dollars Just Won't Cut it

    Quote Originally Posted by iamitter View Post
    Until the day the rich pay the same % of their taxes as everyone else, our tax code is progressive.
    I grew up in a family usually not making even 40k a year. My parents managed to save and now they got to over a million dollars, through prudence and good investment.
    I'm sorry, but if you make 50k a year and don't save ANY of it, I have no sympathy for you.

    They don't pay the same, not in effective tax rates. Warren Buffett already proved the rich pay less. To look at the tax rates in 1980 and after they were changed in 1981, and say they are no less progressive is not acknowleding the facts. Its great you had the wherewithall to become a millionaire. I don't knock you for that. And I am going to do okay, but as of 2009, one in seven in this country was poor. That means a family of four on less than $22,500. One in seven! Then they go after the teachers, who are hardly overpaid, to provide more money for future tax cuts to the wealthy. We seem to be going in the wrong direction from the perspective of the middle class.
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

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    Re: When a Million Dollars Just Won't Cut it

    The really really rich pay less because they get more of their income through capital gains.
    I didn't say they are "no less progressive" I said they are still progressive. When the upper income bracket has a higher tax rate, that's a progressive rate.

    My mother was a teacher in both the private and public sector and she fully supports what they wanted to do in DC. Let teachers earn a lot more, but take away tenure. Teaching is a great profession and I actually hope to someday become one (when I'm 50 maybe - I just don't want to be bored and I certainly don't still want to be in finance).
    However, our current system is broken and needs to change. Compensate teachers NOW for their work. If they're great teachers, pay them well. If they're not, don't. The whole system is screwed up when you can't fire a teacher and most of their money comes in at the end from a pension. This leads to unmotivated teachers, which we absolutely do not need. If someone is burned out from teaching by 45, let them quit, knowing they extracted their wages. If they have to work another 20 years, something they don't want to do, to receive their real compensation, a great pension, they're not going to be very good teachers. Our kids don't need these kinds of teachers.
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    Re: When a Million Dollars Just Won't Cut it

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    They don't pay the same, not in effective tax rates. Warren Buffett already proved the rich pay less. To look at the tax rates in 1980 and after they were changed in 1981, and say they are no less progressive is not acknowleding the facts. Its great you had the wherewithall to become a millionaire. I don't knock you for that. And I am going to do okay, but as of 2009, one in seven in this country was poor. That means a family of four on less than $22,500. One in seven! Then they go after the teachers, who are hardly overpaid, to provide more money for future tax cuts to the wealthy. We seem to be going in the wrong direction from the perspective of the middle class.
    buffett proved no such thing
    he proved a few megabillionaires who can structure their own compensation paid less a percentage than the very wealthy but he didn't disprove the fact that he pays more income tax than millions of americans combined



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    Re: When a Million Dollars Just Won't Cut it

    Quote Originally Posted by iamitter View Post
    The really really rich pay less because they get more of their income through capital gains.
    Why do we continue to let that happen?

    I didn't say they are "no less progressive" I said they are still progressive. When the upper income bracket has a higher tax rate, that's a progressive rate.
    Less progressive is what I mean, except for the very rich who are paying less than their secretaries.

    My mother was a teacher in both the private and public sector and she fully supports what they wanted to do in DC. Let teachers earn a lot more, but take away tenure. Teaching is a great profession and I actually hope to someday become one (when I'm 50 maybe - I just don't want to be bored and I certainly don't still want to be in finance).
    However, our current system is broken and needs to change. Compensate teachers NOW for their work. If they're great teachers, pay them well. If they're not, don't. The whole system is screwed up when you can't fire a teacher and most of their money comes in at the end from a pension. This leads to unmotivated teachers, which we absolutely do not need. If someone is burned out from teaching by 45, let them quit, knowing they extracted their wages. If they have to work another 20 years, something they don't want to do, to receive their real compensation, a great pension, they're not going to be very good teachers. Our kids don't need these kinds of teachers.
    My wife was a LD teacher in an elementary school in a non-union state. They experience worse problems, pay, and benefits than in the union states. Except instead of being near the top in academic excellence like the Northern Unionized states, we are 44th in the country. There are problems that need to be addressed in public schools just as their are problems that need to be addressed for the socio-economic conditions that account for lower testing levels. We also need to look at the inclusion requirements that force schools to include special needs kids into the regular classroom.
    Last edited by Catawba; 03-18-11 at 02:06 AM.
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

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    Re: When a Million Dollars Just Won't Cut it

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    buffett proved no such thing
    he proved a few megabillionaires who can structure their own compensation paid less a percentage than the very wealthy but he didn't disprove the fact that he pays more income tax than millions of americans combined
    No links or facts to back that up?

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    Re: When a Million Dollars Just Won't Cut it

    Quote Originally Posted by hazlnut View Post
    No links or facts to back that up?
    Turtledude with facts???? Its why I just ignored his post. He never does. The sheer weight of his esteemed opinion he says should be enough.
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

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    Re: When a Million Dollars Just Won't Cut it

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    Why do we continue to let that happen?
    Capital gains aren't wages or income. It's return on investment. If you have an investment, you have that tax rate for that, too.


    Less progressive is what I mean, except for the very rich who are paying less than their secretaries.
    That's just lies. Nobody is paying LESS than a secretary. The difference is that they may pay a smaller percentage, as more of their income comes from capital gains. If you think a secretary is paying more in taxes than a billionaire, I can't help you. They are not.
    Also, the only people who have most of their income in capital gains and pay a lot are a couple hundred, maybe a couple thousand people at most.

    My wife was a LD teacher in an elementary school in a non-union state. They experience worse problems, pay, and benefits than in the union states. Except instead of being near the top in academic excellence like the Northern Unionized states, we are 44th in the country. There are problems that need to be addressed in public schools just as their are problems that need to be addressed for the socio-economic conditions that account for lower testing levels. We also need to look at the inclusion requirements that force schools to include special needs kids into the regular classroom.
    I went to NYC public schools until college, where I went to a private university. I came across some excellent teachers and some crappy ones. There's many good, elderly teachers. There's many crappy ones who don't care anymore.
    The problems are not lack of unionization. NY's schools would be so much better without tenure - those crappy teachers would be gone, the good ones would be better compensated and better talent would be attracted due to better pay.
    Give a man a fish, or he will destroy the only existing vial of antidote.

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    Re: When a Million Dollars Just Won't Cut it

    [QUOTE=iamitter;1059356405]
    Capital gains aren't wages or income. It's return on investment. If you have an investment, you have that tax rate for that, too.
    That explains why they used to have super high tax rate on the super rich, to compensate for that.

    That's just lies. Nobody is paying LESS than a secretary. The difference is that they may pay a smaller percentage, as more of their income comes from capital gains. If you think a secretary is paying more in taxes than a billionaire, I can't help you. They are not.

    Yes, a lower percentage of course, that is what we were discussing.

    Also, the only people who have most of their income in capital gains and pay a lot are a couple hundred, maybe a couple thousand people at most.
    And those couple thousand own much of the wealth in this country, why should they not be required to pay their fair share?



    I went to NYC public schools until college, where I went to a private university. I came across some excellent teachers and some crappy ones. There's many good, elderly teachers. There's many crappy ones who don't care anymore.
    I run into people like that in every profession, public and private alike. You are right that it is a problem but wrong that it just happens in public jobs, IMO.

    The problems are not lack of unionization. NY's schools would be so much better without tenure - those crappy teachers would be gone, the good ones would be better compensated and better talent would be attracted due to better pay.
    It didn't work out that way for states that lost their unions. The reality here is that the pay and benefits just got worse and so did the academic excellence.
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

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