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Thread: Scott Walker's real Agenda In Wisconsin

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    Re: Scott Walker's real Agenda In Wisconsin

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    Sometimes the best insight into American politics comes from across the pond.

    Scott Walker's real agenda in Wisconsin | Michael Hudson and Jeffrey Sommers | Comment is free | guardian.co.uk

    This is excellent and a perfect preview to the nightmare unfolding right before our eyes without benefit of the narcotic of deep REM sleep.

    a taste of the article to whet your appetites




    An alliance between right wing conservative government and wealthy corporate interests produced by quashing the rights of people opposed to such a move. Now what was that movement called again?
    This is an excellent and perfect example of, "I read it, so it must be true."
    The devil whispered in my ear, "You cannot withstand the storm." I whispered back, "I am ​the storm."

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    Re: Scott Walker's real Agenda In Wisconsin

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    Lets see-one author was an advisor to Dennis Kuchnich and the other is an associate professor at a state school in wisconsin. Not exactly objective viewpoints. Lots of presumptions and assumptions in that opinion piece

    presumably to campaign contributors


    it is the middle class that is being euthanised – throughout North America and Europe.


    And much more is said to be in the works.

    In other words propaganda
    hay wouldnt know a bias propaganda piece like this for what it is, even if it bit his ass.

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    Re: Scott Walker's real Agenda In Wisconsin

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    This is an excellent and perfect example of, "I read it, so it must be true."
    Actually the predictable reaction here is a perfect example of the right wing denial. What Walker is planning is a betrayal of American principles and an approaches acst of treason against the working people of Wisconsin.
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    Re: Scott Walker's real Agenda In Wisconsin

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    Lets see-one author was an advisor to Dennis Kuchnich and the other is an associate professor at a state school in wisconsin. Not exactly objective viewpoints. Lots of presumptions and assumptions in that opinion piece

    presumably to campaign contributors


    it is the middle class that is being euthanised – throughout North America and Europe.


    And much more is said to be in the works.

    In other words propaganda
    An empty attack on the authors, no concrete critiques of the actual article... That's TD.

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    Re: Scott Walker's real Agenda In Wisconsin

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    Actually the predictable reaction here is a perfect example of the right wing denial. What Walker is planning is a betrayal of American principles and an approaches acst of treason against the working people of Wisconsin.
    May we have some independent links, please?
    The devil whispered in my ear, "You cannot withstand the storm." I whispered back, "I am ​the storm."

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    Re: Scott Walker's real Agenda In Wisconsin

    Quote Originally Posted by ashurbanipal View Post
    OK, here are a couple of observations:

    1) Privatization is always sold as a clean deal by its proponents. It never ends up as such, however. Those private industries that run utilities, for instance, have no trouble seeking public funds when they have mismanaged things and suffered a loss...or even when they just happen to feel like they can succeed at doing so. They usually do get the funds they seek thanks to corrupt local politicians (the same ones who promoted the privatization in the first place). It's very strange to me that the anti-big-government wing in this country fails to recognize the almost seamless integration of business and government. It's rather as if someone were to announce themselves as anti-communist, but pro-marxist. If one is truly against big government, one must also be against big business, since the de facto authors of policy and law in this nation are big businesses.

    2) It is very clear to anyone not in the grip of an ideology that Walker's program is not motivated by the pressures he claims.

    3) All of this said, liberals are just as much to blame as conservatives for getting us into the fix in which we, the people of the U.S., find ourselves. And neither conservative nor liberal solutions as currently proposed are going to make any positive difference. Though I disagree with his opinion in general, I believe TurtleDude made a valid point earlier in this thread about the overall character of Americans these days, and more people on the left ought to start listening when those on the right start talking about personal responsibility. Similarly, those on the right ought to start listening to the leftist critiques of their (i.e. the right's) economic solutions.
    I had to go back and look to see what turtledove had said/wrote and to my utter amazement I agree with you, he did make some valid points

    I know why

    1) globalization makes American "middle class jobs" too expensive to compete

    Your absolutley right, what is your solution to create employment opportunities for the middle class?

    2) education--those who don't have it cannot compete with those who have it

    Your absolutley right so what do you suggest for those who either can not afford it or do not have the capacity to work at tech type jobs, and how do we stop them from being shipped overseas?

    3) lots of americans engage in life choices that prevent them from getting the necessary education

    Your absolutely right and some are born into lives that are not condusive to getting the education needed to compete, what is your solution?

    4) the breeding rates of those unable to compete tend to be much higher than those who do

    I don't care much for your choice of words "breeding rates" we are talking about human beings not animals, I agree that to many are being brought into this world in life style environments that will make being competitive more then difficult. Hope is important, nothing beats opportunity as a motivator, so how do we extend hope and opportunity to those unfortunate enough to born into what appears a jopeless situation ?

    5) we have made losing too comfortable in the United States and the darwinian forces that motivated many to compete have been decreased.

    I agree 100% now how do we address it? How do we get those who are in the repetitious cycle of federal assistance out of that cycle

    6) the democratic party needs lots of people in the underclass to both justify their income redistribution programs (that tend to enrich dem politicians) and to supply them votes. the dems have had control of congress for most of the 50 years following the New Deal and thus cemented into our society the programs that create and maintain this underclass

    I think both parties spend to much time pointing fingers and assigning blame and not nearly enough time looking for solutions, we need rocket science to luanch rockets we don't need rocket science to identify problems and come up with working solutions. So we have a CHOICE we can continue down the road we are on throwing sticks stones and words at each other or we can sit down and work out solutions for the problems that face us as a nation, WE is the key word here United is how we maintain our strength as a nation, We are DIVIDED and can not survive in this state

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    Re: Scott Walker's real Agenda In Wisconsin

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    Sometimes the best insight into American politics comes from across the pond.

    Scott Walker's real agenda in Wisconsin | Michael Hudson and Jeffrey Sommers | Comment is free | guardian.co.uk

    This is excellent and a perfect preview to the nightmare unfolding right before our eyes without benefit of the narcotic of deep REM sleep.

    a taste of the article to whet your appetites




    An alliance between right wing conservative government and wealthy corporate interests produced by quashing the rights of people opposed to such a move. Now what was that movement called again?
    This is an excellent read. Thank you for posting.

    Too bad the far-righties either won't read it or they'll dismiss it because that's what they've been trained to do by Fox News.

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    Re: Scott Walker's real Agenda In Wisconsin

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    I know why

    1) globalization makes American "middle class jobs" too expensive to compete
    And yet middle-class incomes haven't increased much over the years yet the argument wrongfully continues to be that the middle-class are worried about tax increases. I doubt it; most low and low-middle-class wage earners are just trying to make a living off what little they have. We may worry about whether or not we receive a tax refund, but most aren't that worried about their taxes going up. We're just trying to survive and maintain a living, and considering that most Americans have seen more money in their paychecks via the "Making Work Pay" tax credit, I doubt too many are sitting home believing that their taxes have increased. They may complain that their dollar doesn't go as far today as it did 2-3 yrs ago due to market forces, i.e., the price of gas going up which effects every other consumer item, but most aren't that worried about their taxes increasing.

    2) education--those who don't have it cannot compete with those who have it
    And yet the GOP in their budget proposal have reduced the amount of funds college students would receive from Pell Grants. Does that not smell of those in power trying to keep those who are less fortunate than they out of the upper tier income brackets? Even if it doesn't, doesn't this disturb you? If not, it should because it has been your side who continue to make the claim that the poor need to do things to improve their way of life and the best way to do that IS to become better educated and/her learn a (new) skill or trade so that one CAN find better work and start "taking more responsibility for their own financial situation". You call it "social welfare"; I call it government helping those who otherwise can't help themselves to do better so that they can stop being a drain on their communities, their state and the federal government.

    3) lots of americans engage in life choices that prevent them from getting the necessary education
    Go on...you can say it...people who become addicted to drugs and alcohol or teen pregnancy/single parents. It's okay...nothing taboo here. People get caught up doing alot of things they shouldn't be doing or their life situation places them in unfortunate situations. Still, I think it unfair to paint everyone in these such situations with such a broad brush. You don't know what led them to be in their current situation. The addicts aside, I think most others really want better for themselves, they just don't know how to turn things around. It's why I suggested to apbst and Conservative at one point instead of condemning these types of people, why don't you take one by the hand and teach him/her your ways. For as the saying goes, "success breads success". So, if you consider yourself to be a successful individual, why not mentor someone and teach him/her your ways? Put your time and money where your mouth is.

    4) the breeding rates of those unable to compete tend to be much higher than those who do
    Again, you talk down about people who have nothing as if they have anything more to do. If you don't know how to do better for yourself or don't see end-roads towards improving your current situation, what else are you to do? Sex relieves stress, but unprotected sex tends to breed yet one more mouth to feed. Poor people don't know that they can get birth control (condoms) for free just by going to their local health department. Even Planned Parenthood gives them out for free. Still, as the saying goes, "You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make them drink." Same goes for condoms; you can get them into the hands of most adolensence, but getting the young men to wear them is a different story...until you send them to see the struggles of young parents, single-mothers who are teens. Better yet, give more teenaged girls babysitting jobs like my wife and I attempted to do with our 17 yr old daughter. She quickly learned that being responsible for a child was hard work! Hasn't stopped her from having sex, just stopped her from having "unprotected sex". See the difference?

    5) we have made losing too comfortable in the United States and the darwinian forces that motivated many to compete have been decreased.
    What a foolish statement. People will risk what small fortune they may have IF they can adequately judge the risk OR if they believe they have nothing else to lose. It's very difficult to move from the bottom and make it anywhere near the top if you don't have 1) the resources (money) to invest (risk) accordingly, or 2) some level of support to fall back on. Those who have made it big either got lucky, got creative, or increased their networth over time. Therefore, unless you were either born with a silver spoon in your mouth, lucked into some large inheritance or won the lotto, or happen to know friends and family who were willing to help support (finance) your ambitions or you took out a loan or put up some collateral against your risk, you're really not going to move from your present station in life. The only other "safe" risk for most is getting a quality education and then applying what you've learned into better income opportunities. Thus, that takes us all the way back to your #1 issue. We've come full circle.

    6) the democratic party needs lots of people in the underclass to both justify their income redistribution programs (that tend to enrich dem politicians) and to supply them votes. the dems have had control of congress for most of the 50 years following the New Deal and thus cemented into our society the programs that create and maintain this underclass
    Ah! I see you've either been listening to Conservative talk radio or read, Revolt: A Patriots Guide. Well, so have I, and IMO, alot of what Dick Morris and Eileen McGann write about are flawed. But you keep running your play-by-play using this Conservative Manifesto and your side will likely lose.
    Last edited by Objective Voice; 03-14-11 at 02:44 PM.

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    Re: Scott Walker's real Agenda In Wisconsin

    Quote Originally Posted by hazlnut View Post
    This is an excellent read. Thank you for posting.

    Too bad the far-righties either won't read it or they'll dismiss it because that's what they've been trained to do by Fox News.
    mostly we dismiss it because Hay or you post it.

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    Re: Scott Walker's real Agenda In Wisconsin

    Quote Originally Posted by EarlzP View Post
    I think if you take off the blinders and put aside your political affiliations it has to be apparent that the middle class is being pushed out, just the increase in the gap between the rich and the poor should be alarming enough to make you take notice and start asking why
    Thank about what it is you are proposing. That average AMERICANs are victims. Right. Victims of the most propserious nation in the world, foreigners can't get here fast enough because of our law and order and economic opportunities. Immigrants come here with next to nothing and somehow turn that around and prosper. But our "middle class" is a bunch of victims. What...the....****.

    Keep telling the middle class they are victims, some apparently will believe you.

    When I see a room full of underperforming individuals I think they lack drive, direction, and management. What are you thinking...they they need more handouts to help them achieve? Maybe the guarantee of a full-time tenured job + pension will motivate them? What!?!

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