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Thread: Scott Walker's real Agenda In Wisconsin

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    Re: Scott Walker's real Agenda In Wisconsin

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    citing an OPINION piece written by two left wing hacks based on supposition and assumptions is really useful
    And you are impotent to discuss even one idea they raised. Talk about something not at all useful.

    The piece gives you lots of FACTUAL information that reveals what Walkers plans are with the state budget and many Wisconsin assets. Why do you ignore all that?

    Perhaps it is because you would not recognize a fact if it came up and bit you?

    you say this

    and the other is an associate professor at a state school in wisconsin
    so what?
    Last edited by haymarket; 03-13-11 at 10:51 PM.
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    Re: Scott Walker's real Agenda In Wisconsin

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    And you are impotent to discuss even one idea they raised. Talk about something not at all useful.

    The piece gives you lots of FACTUAL information that reveals what Walkers plans are with the state budget and many Wisconsin assets. Why do you ignore all that?

    Perhaps it is because you would not recognize a fact if it came up and bit you?
    the article is based upon the opinion of hacks

    merely noting that I don't share the opinion of hacks is sufficient



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    Re: Scott Walker's real Agenda In Wisconsin

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    the article is based upon the opinion of hacks

    merely noting that I don't share the opinion of hacks is sufficient
    YOu have not proven that anyone is less than credible. You have given us the opinion of one right wing extremist - namely Y..O...U... in an attempt to brand others as hacks. One is merely an associate professor at a college and for you that is a serious indictment.

    Why don't you take a giant step in intellectual development and attack their ideas instead of them as people? You can then learn to attack the ideas expressed on this forum instead of the posters as you always do.

    I suspect you are intellectually impotent to do so since you loathe supporting information the way a demon hates an exorcist.
    Last edited by haymarket; 03-13-11 at 10:55 PM.
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    There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.... John Rogers

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    Re: Scott Walker's real Agenda In Wisconsin

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    YOu have not proven that anyone is less than credible. You have given us the opinion of one right wing extremist - namely Y..O...U... in an attempt to brand others as hacks. One is merely an associate professor at a college and for you that is a serious indictment.

    Why don't you take a giant step in intellectual development and attack their ideas instead of them as people? You can then learn to attack the ideas expressed on this forum instead of the posters as you always do.

    I suspect you are intellectually impotent to do so since you loathe supporting information the way a demon hates an exorcist.
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    Scott Walker's real Agenda In WisconsinKnock off the personal attacks, haymarket.
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    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

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    Re: Scott Walker's real Agenda In Wisconsin

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    YOu have not proven that anyone is less than credible. You have given us the opinion of one right wing extremist - namely Y..O...U... in an attempt to brand others as hacks. One is merely an associate professor at a college and for you that is a serious indictment.

    Why don't you take a giant step in intellectual development and attack their ideas instead of them as people? You can then learn to attack the ideas expressed on this forum instead of the posters as you always do.

    I suspect you are intellectually impotent to do so since you loathe supporting information the way a demon hates an exorcist.
    I suspect that anyone who considers me a "right wing extremist" would consider Clinton a wingnut



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    Re: Scott Walker's real Agenda In Wisconsin

    Scott Walker's real agenda in Wisconsin | Michael Hudson and Jeffrey Sommers | Comment is free | guardian.co.uk

    A peek into Governor Walker's so-called "budget repair bill" reveals a shop of horrors that is just the opposite of actually repairing the budget. Among the items listed in the bill until Wednesday night were selloffs of state power generation facilities in no-bid contracts notoriously prone to insider dealing. The 37 facilities he wants to sell off that produce heating and cooling at low cost to the state's universities and prisons. Walker's budget repair bill would have unloaded them at a low price, presumably to campaign contributors such as Koch Industries and then stick the bill for producing this power at higher rates to Wisconsin taxpayers in perpetuity. (And this is all being sold as a "taxpayer relief" plan!) Invariably, this will make its way into new legislation once attention is diverted from the current controversy.
    Government owned and operated facilities have never produced anything at low cost.....besides bureaucracy.

    If it was low cost to universities and prisons.....it was high cost to The Taxpayer.

    The budget bill also plans to tear down the Wisconsin Retirement System (WRS). This is not New Jersey, where a succession of corrupt governments have underfunded (read: stolen) the state pension system in order to shift resources to pay for budget shortfalls in general revenues caused by tax breaks for the rich. The WRS is one of the nation's most stable, well-funded and best-managed pension systems. Although Wisconsin is not a big state, the WRS has amassed $75bn in reserves, and pays out handsome pensions to its public retirees, without needing new public subsidy. The Walker bill has language providing for tearing down this system, raiding its assets to pay for further tax cuts for the rich (especially property owners), and then throwing Wall Street a meaty bone as public employees would be shifted to 401k plans handled by money managers on commission.
    Time for the Diamond inlayed union slob pensions to come to an end.......

    Crazy idea here.......if State workers want a diamond inlayed pension.....let them pay for it....my wallet needs a break.

    In a separate proposal, Governor Walker would start privatising the University of Wisconsin's two flagship doctorate-granting campuses. Ironically, the land grant universities of which Wisconsin has long been among the best were created by protectionist 19th-century Republicans as an alternative approach to British free-market doctrine, which dominated the prestigious and largely anglophile Ivy League universities. These universities, like their German counterparts, taught a new economic policy of state management and public enterprise that formed the basis for subsequent US and German development. Walker would kill off this tradition, and return intellectual production to the highest bidder. Other proposals suggest selling off Wisconsin's public northwoods lands with their cornucopia of mineral and timber wealth. And much more is said to be in the works.
    A seperation of school and state........God Bless You Scott Walker!
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    Re: Scott Walker's real Agenda In Wisconsin

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    I know why

    1) globalization makes American "middle class jobs" too expensive to compete

    2) education--those who don't have it cannot compete with those who have it

    3) lots of americans engage in life choices that prevent them from getting the necessary education

    4) the breeding rates of those unable to compete tend to be much higher than those who do

    5) we have made losing too comfortable in the United States and the darwinian forces that motivated many to compete have been decreased.

    6) the democratic party needs lots of people in the underclass to both justify their income redistribution programs (that tend to enrich dem politicians) and to supply them votes. the dems have had control of congress for most of the 50 years following the New Deal and thus cemented into our society the programs that create and maintain this underclass
    And the "Facts" bear out the truth as to what party is relegating more and more people from a supposed MIDDLE CLASS (as the left continually attempts to present the false premise that the United States is divided up into FIXED social levels with no opportunity to move about either up or down said social ladder...like the propaganda propagated in the USSR and CHINA to promote CLASS WARFARE....when in reality the term MIDDLE CLASS in the United States is a term that simply means NORMAL or AVERAGE...the mean average along a supposed POVERTY INDEX, and no person is held back from going from the lower end of the poverty index to the upper end depending upon the Work Ethic or individual exceptionalism that exists..i.e., desire to have a better life), regardless of the meaning to the term American Middle Class........

    The Facts point out the reality of the situation, figures do not lie...but as demonstrated, LIARS FIGURE. Over the past two years...18 months of which have been ruled completely by a BULLET PROOF...progressive majority that was not even subject to a filibuster, have yielded nothing but out of control spending, over 4 Trillion dollars to be exact, with that expenditure effecting the POVERTY INDEX..how? The poverty index demonstrates that the poverty level among US CITIZENS grew from 12.3% to over 15%...the greatest increase in US HISTORY from the time that such stats began to be calculated in the 60s, its official, one in seven Americans are now living in poverty.

    But that's not the worst. Over the past few decades the Progressives have WASTED 15.9 Trillion "inflation adj. dollars" to bring about the greatest poverty level increase in US HISTORY, moving more People from the middle class and holding them there by ENTITLEMENT give aways that do nothing except keep a voting base for the modern progressive movement. Proving one thing, The modern Progressive Party LOVES POOR PEOPLE so much so they Make Them and are mandating the Red Ledger Expenditure of Some 10.3 Trillion Dollars more on Welfare Entitlement Spending alone over the next decade. Correct me if I am wrong...if the true objective was to make more MIDDLE CLASS citizens instead of more WELFARE BABIES...why would anyone mandate 10.3 Trillion Dollars more to be spend on welfare over the next decade...would that money not be better spent on making SHOVEL READY JOBS as was promised during the Campaign instead of projecting the NEED of MORE WELFARE MONEY because you are expecting even more than the record 15% that is now demonstrably existing?

    The numbers simply do not add up. But they are there for everyone to see, in fact more money has been spent on placing people on WELFARE over the past few decades (15.9 trillion) than the total cost of All Wars in US HISTORY combined from the Revolution to the current middle east conflicts which has totaled less than half that amount (6.7 trillion) from 1776 to date. Someone is LYING SOMEWHERE.

    Obama to Spend $10.3 Trillion on Welfare: Uncovering the Full Cost of Means-Tested Welfare or Aid to the Poor | The Heritage Foundation
    Last edited by Walter; 03-14-11 at 12:25 AM.

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    Re: Scott Walker's real Agenda In Wisconsin

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    Sometimes the best insight into American politics comes from across the pond.

    Scott Walker's real agenda in Wisconsin | Michael Hudson and Jeffrey Sommers | Comment is free | guardian.co.uk

    This is excellent and a perfect preview to the nightmare unfolding right before our eyes without benefit of the narcotic of deep REM sleep.

    a taste of the article to whet your appetites




    An alliance between right wing conservative government and wealthy corporate interests produced by quashing the rights of people opposed to such a move. Now what was that movement called again?
    that author has to be the biggest idiot in the world. his first paragraph alone blows the whole thing.

    he starts right off claiming a shop of horrors about things that have nothing to do with the budget?

    so what are these things? selling assets, which provides money towards the budget, and privatizing something, which removes an expense against the budget.
    Last edited by ARealConservative; 03-14-11 at 12:37 AM.

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    Re: Scott Walker's real Agenda In Wisconsin

    Quote Originally Posted by Walter View Post
    And the "Facts" bear out the truth as to what party is relegating more and more people from a supposed MIDDLE CLASS (as the left continually attempts to present the false premise that the United States is divided up into FIXED social levels with no opportunity to move about either up or down said social ladder...like the propaganda propagated in the USSR and CHINA to promote CLASS WARFARE....when in reality the term MIDDLE CLASS in the United States is a term that simply means NORMAL or AVERAGE...the mean average along a supposed POVERTY INDEX, and no person is held back from going from the lower end of the poverty index to the upper end depending upon the Work Ethic or individual exceptionalism that exists..i.e., desire to have a better life), regardless of the meaning to the term American Middle Class........

    The Facts point out the reality of the situation, figures do not lie...but as demonstrated, LIARS FIGURE. Over the past two years...18 months of which have been ruled completely by a BULLET PROOF...progressive majority that was not even subject to a filibuster, have yielded nothing but out of control spending, over 4 Trillion dollars to be exact, with that expenditure effecting the POVERTY INDEX..how? The poverty index demonstrates that the poverty level among US CITIZENS grew from 12.3% to over 15%...the greatest increase in US HISTORY from the time that such stats began to be calculated in the 60s, its official, one in seven Americans are now living in poverty.

    But that's not the worst. Over the past few decades the Progressives have WASTED 15.9 Trillion "inflation adj. dollars" to bring about the greatest poverty level increase in US HISTORY, moving more People from the middle class and holding them there by ENTITLEMENT give aways that do nothing except keep a voting base for the modern progressive movement. Proving one thing, The modern Progressive Party LOVES POOR PEOPLE so much so they Make Them and are mandating the Red Ledger Expenditure of Some 10.3 Trillion Dollars more on Welfare Entitlement Spending alone over the next decade. Correct me if I am wrong...if the true objective was to make more MIDDLE CLASS citizens instead of more WELFARE BABIES...why would anyone mandate 10.3 Trillion Dollars more to be spend on welfare over the next decade...would that money not be better spent on making SHOVEL READY JOBS as was promised during the Campaign instead of projecting the NEED of MORE WELFARE MONEY because you are expecting even more than the record 15% that is now demonstrably existing?

    The numbers simply do not add up. But they are there for everyone to see, in fact more money has been spent on placing people on WELFARE over the past few decades (15.9 trillion) than the total cost of All Wars in US HISTORY combined from the Revolution to the current middle east conflicts which has totaled less than half that amount (6.7 trillion) from 1776 to date. Someone is LYING SOMEWHERE.

    Obama to Spend $10.3 Trillion on Welfare: Uncovering the Full Cost of Means-Tested Welfare or Aid to the Poor | The Heritage Foundation
    I could argue some of your talking points but the truth is we spend much to much time pointing the finger and not enough time looking for a way to change the status quo

    I am a bleeding heart when it comes to children, they can't pick their parents. I don't believe any child should ever go without the basic needs that effect their ability to raise their selves up and become whatever they are capable of becoming. Our educational system sucks “even if the child is from a well to do environment “ and needs to be totally revamped. IMO in most cases it's not the teachers it's not the students it's the system that is failing

    Some families have hand me down wealth, some have hand me down clothes, some have hand me down poverty, our system does nothing to take away the incentive to stay on public assistance . If we want to change the status quo able bodied able minded citizens drawing assistance need to put in a position of where they are working for that assistance. Having to get up each and every working day and go out to earn their public assistance will take away the incentive to stay on assistance, it does not matter if they police up the street as long as they have to get up and get at it every day.

    We don’t have the answers so we keep doing what we are doing and it only leads to more of the same, we treat symptoms and never causes. Poverty is not going to go away because we throw billions of dollars at it. Nothing changes until an effort is made to change it, the status quo is unacceptable, denying that it exists will not make it go away, starving the next poverty generation will not make it go away. Fighting about it will not make it go away

    We need to address the problems starting from before a child is born, what can be done to give that child a chance to carve out a piece of the american pie?

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    Re: Scott Walker's real Agenda In Wisconsin

    OK, here are a couple of observations:

    1) Privatization is always sold as a clean deal by its proponents. It never ends up as such, however. Those private industries that run utilities, for instance, have no trouble seeking public funds when they have mismanaged things and suffered a loss...or even when they just happen to feel like they can succeed at doing so. They usually do get the funds they seek thanks to corrupt local politicians (the same ones who promoted the privatization in the first place). It's very strange to me that the anti-big-government wing in this country fails to recognize the almost seamless integration of business and government. It's rather as if someone were to announce themselves as anti-communist, but pro-marxist. If one is truly against big government, one must also be against big business, since the de facto authors of policy and law in this nation are big businesses.

    2) It is very clear to anyone not in the grip of an ideology that Walker's program is not motivated by the pressures he claims.

    3) All of this said, liberals are just as much to blame as conservatives for getting us into the fix in which we, the people of the U.S., find ourselves. And neither conservative nor liberal solutions as currently proposed are going to make any positive difference. Though I disagree with his opinion in general, I believe TurtleDude made a valid point earlier in this thread about the overall character of Americans these days, and more people on the left ought to start listening when those on the right start talking about personal responsibility. Similarly, those on the right ought to start listening to the leftist critiques of their (i.e. the right's) economic solutions.

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