• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Unions threaten Business

You are right that I would have been much happier with a liberal president, but it seems only moderate presidents get elected.

Barack HusSame Obama--Rated the #1 Liberal Senator in 2007.....even more liberal than Socialist Bernie Sanders.

Even still, Obama has proposed more spending cuts than his Rebublican predecessor in his 2012 budget. And just as importantly has proposed cutting the tax breaks for the most wealty.

"In his FY 2012 budget, President Obama repeats his call for Congress to end the Bush-era tax cuts for higher-income individuals (which the president generally defines as single individuals with incomes over $200,000 and married couples with incomes over $250,000). The top individual income tax rates would increase to 36 percent and 39.6 percent, respectively, after 2012. For 2011 and 2012, the top two individual income tax rates are 33 percent and 35 percent, respectively. The president also proposes to limit the deductions of higher income individuals.

Additionally, the president wants Congress to extend the reduced tax rates on capital gains and dividends, but not for higher-income individuals. Single individuals with incomes above $200,000 and married couples with incomes above $250,000 would pay capital gains and dividend taxes at 20 percent rather than at 15 percent after 2012."
President's FY 2012 Proposals: Higher Taxes on Wealthy, Limited Tax Breaks for Businesses : On-line newsletters, Profitable Solutions for Nonprofits, Bottom Line, Indiana

When are you 50 million fish going to realize......its not what Obama says he is going to do that matters.......its what he actually does.

And he is spending this country into oblivion......and beyond......like the Liberals before him....like the Liberals that will come after him, should America make that mistake.
.
.
.
 
"All the years".....

800px-US_Federal_Debt_as_Percent_of_GDP_by_House_Majority_Party_281940_to_200929.png

.
.
.
.

Very colourful. Title? Titles for Axes? Explanation? How did a party have over 120% of the power in the 1940s?
 
Was the largest mortgage underwriter in the world ADEQUATELY REGULATED in your opinion?

considering that that entity was the United States of America, and given that "quality" rather than "quantity" of regulation is a portion of "adequate"; obviously the answer is no. The US Government very, very, stupidly (but perhaps sweetly) thought it could put every American family into a nice home irrespective of their ability to afford it without any economic downside.
 
Very colourful. Title? Titles for Axes? Explanation? How did a party have over 120% of the power in the 1940s?

it's off of the House of Representatives. the up-down axis obviously isn't power, but it does appear to mirror Debt-to-GDP.
 
As has been documented, those making over $1 million get a $93,000 in tax breaks on average while those making under $1 million get $100 on average in tax breaks. As a result of increased costs for survival needs, the middle class has stagnated while those at the top have prospered.

while I can almost agree with the $93,000 I have showed you that your $100. figure is a load of crap, yet you still use it ? why is that ?
 
You are right that I would have been much happier with a liberal president, but it seems only moderate presidents get elected.

Even still, Obama has proposed more spending cuts than his Rebublican predecessor in his 2012 budget. And just as importantly has proposed cutting the tax breaks for the most wealty.

"In his FY 2012 budget, President Obama repeats his call for Congress to end the Bush-era tax cuts for higher-income individuals (which the president generally defines as single individuals with incomes over $200,000 and married couples with incomes over $250,000). The top individual income tax rates would increase to 36 percent and 39.6 percent, respectively, after 2012. For 2011 and 2012, the top two individual income tax rates are 33 percent and 35 percent, respectively. The president also proposes to limit the deductions of higher income individuals.

Additionally, the president wants Congress to extend the reduced tax rates on capital gains and dividends, but not for higher-income individuals. Single individuals with incomes above $200,000 and married couples with incomes above $250,000 would pay capital gains and dividend taxes at 20 percent rather than at 15 percent after 2012."
President's FY 2012 Proposals: Higher Taxes on Wealthy, Limited Tax Breaks for Businesses : On-line newsletters, Profitable Solutions for Nonprofits, Bottom Line, Indiana


In his FY 2012 budget, President Obama repeats his call for Congress to end the Bush-era tax cuts for higher-income individuals ..... tax hike

Additionally, the president wants Congress to extend the reduced tax rates on capital gains and dividends, but not for higher-income individuals ..... tax hike

The president proposes to increase the IRS's budget to hire more customer service representatives. .....spending increase

The president's FY 2012 budget does not include a cut in the U.S. corporate tax rate. .......highest in the world

President Obama proposes a significant increase in funding for the IRS. Most of the money would go to hiring new revenue officers and boosting enforcement activities... spending increase

In his FY 2012 budget, the president proposes to return the federal estate tax to its 2009..... tax increase

The White House and Congress are both looking at ways to cut the federal budget deficit. Taxes are one way. The president's FY 2012 budget proposes a number of revenue raisers, especially in the area of international taxation and in fossil fuel production...... tax increases...

LIFO. President Obama proposes to repeal the last-in, first-out (LIFO) inventory accounting method .....tax increase

President Obama proposes to repeal nearly all of these tax breaks for oil, gas and coal companies. ..... tax increases, and increased cost of any of our energy.

The president's FY 2012 budget proposes to tax carried interest as ordinary income. ...... tax increase...

Insurance companies are subject to specific and very technical tax rules. ...... tax increases

yet according to you ....... Even still, Obama has proposed more spending cuts than his Rebublican predecessor in his 2012 budget..... I guess you are going to have to highlight those spending cuts in the link you gave, all I was able to find was typical of a tax and spend liberal ..... more taxes and more spending.
 
Last edited:
while I can almost agree with the $93,000 I have showed you that your $100. figure is a load of crap, yet you still use it ? why is that ?

His $93,000 figure is incorrect. His source for this is a comment made on the Congressional Record. The puffery and misrepresentation that's on the Congressional Record is legendary for its inaccuracies. Unless under oath, hyperbole rules.

How about a $58,000 savings? http://www.nytimes.com/2007/01/08/washington/08tax.html
 
Very colourful. Title? Titles for Axes? Explanation? How did a party have over 120% of the power in the 1940s?

I expect that chart is one of debt to GDP, the blue years would be years of a democratic congress/senate (both or just one as I am not sure if both were controlled for that length of time on a continuous basis. A far more common chart follows the same baseline but has the colours more broken up as it shows the years of a republican vs democratic presidents


The 120% value of course would be government debt as a % of GDP

The graph though seems a little skewed as I believe debt as a % of GDP started to increase in 2001 and not 2003 as the graph shows


here is a graph of debt to GDP with the pretty colours
USDebt.png


Notice the overall shape is the same with the skewed GDP % around 2001-2003


Note i posted this before seeing that CPwill posted something similar already
 
Last edited:
while I can almost agree with the $93,000 I have showed you that your $100. figure is a load of crap, yet you still use it ? why is that ?

Because I don't have that high of regard for your opinion.
 
The following letter is being sent out from Wisconsin Unions/THE MOB to Wisconsin Business Owners.......



Taking "Put the money in the bag.....or were gonna shut you down" to a whole new level.

This ****ing disgusts me.....these power hungry union slobs are a disgrace to this country......and piss poor excuses for Americans. A Union of little thug dictators.......its no wonder they prostitute for The Democrat Party and The Kenyan Tyrant. Birds of a feather....
.
.
.
.

Hmmm. Sounds like bullying.

I thought Obama was against that.
 
His $93,000 figure is incorrect. His source for this is a comment made on the Congressional Record. The puffery and misrepresentation that's on the Congressional Record is legendary for its inaccuracies. Unless under oath, hyperbole rules.

How about a $58,000 savings? http://www.nytimes.com/2007/01/08/washington/08tax.html

Ha! A different source does not necessarily mean its the correct source. Its strictly your opinion that the NYT is more accurate than the Congressional Record.

Its more likely to me the Congressional Record is correct at $93,000.

Congressional Record - Google Books

Which ever you go, the top tax class get more in tax breaks each year than a Wisconsin teacher's salary!!! We simply can't afford to keep providing those kind of tax cuts to those that need them least, while the middle class declines and our debt grows. As your own article points out:

"Mr. Bush and his Republican allies in Congress want to permanently extend that tax cut and almost all of the others that Congress passed in his first term. The cost of doing that would be more than $1 trillion over the next decade, a cost that would hit the Treasury at the same time that the spending on old-age benefits for retiring baby boomers begins to soar."
 
I expect that chart is one of debt to GDP, the blue years would be years of a democratic congress/senate (both or just one as I am not sure if both were controlled for that length of time on a continuous basis. A far more common chart follows the same baseline but has the colours more broken up as it shows the years of a republican vs democratic presidents
The 120% value of course would be government debt as a % of GDP
The graph though seems a little skewed as I believe debt as a % of GDP started to increase in 2001 and not 2003 as the graph shows
here is a graph of debt to GDP with the pretty colours
USDebt.png

Notice the overall shape is the same with the skewed GDP % around 2001-2003
Note i posted this before seeing that CPwill posted something similar already

I'd rather Badmutha came back on the partisan graph posted but I think I understand it a little better thanks to you guys.

The graph shows Gross debt and Public debt so I assume that the gap is Private debt which has clearly risen dramatically since deregulation commenced in the 1980s but I also speculate whether this debt might have risen sharply because Middle Class standards of living were being maintained by borrowing in the face of a squeeze on their actual income?
 
Ha! A different source does not necessarily mean its the correct source. Its strictly your opinion that the NYT is more accurate than the Congressional Record.

Its more likely to me the Congressional Record is correct at $93,000.

Congressional Record - Google Books

Why is the congressional record more likely to be correct?
 
Hmmm. Sounds like bullying.

I thought Obama was against that.

Hmm so what you're saying is that free market decisions are bullying now? Interesting. Republican support for corporatist pigs will never cease to amaze me. Let me guess, when customers decide to boycott a company because of its policies you call that bullying too? Wait, don't answer that. We know your head will spin in circles trying.
 
I'd rather Badmutha came back on the partisan graph posted but I think I understand it a little better thanks to you guys.

The graph shows Gross debt and Public debt so I assume that the gap is Private debt which has clearly risen dramatically since deregulation commenced in the 1980s but I also speculate whether this debt might have risen sharply because Middle Class standards of living were being maintained by borrowing in the face of a squeeze on their actual income?

Actually the gross and public debt

Gross debt, total debt of the US federal government including that held by other government institutions, like Social Security. The few trillion dollars the US government owes to Social Security is held in that catagory. Which is why gross debt is at a higher level then the public debt. It also includes the value for the public debt

Public debt, is the US federal government debt held by the public. The public in this case being individuals worldwide holding T Bills and the like. It also includes foreign governmnt holdings of US bonds, T Bill. The trillion or so US government bonds that China has is included as part of this catagory and the gross debt
 
Ha! A different source does not necessarily mean its the correct source. Its strictly your opinion that the NYT is more accurate than the Congressional Record.

Its more likely to me the Congressional Record is correct at $93,000.

Congressional Record - Google Books

Which ever you go, the top tax class get more in tax breaks each year than a Wisconsin teacher's salary!!! We simply can't afford to keep providing those kind of tax cuts to those that need them least, while the middle class declines and our debt grows. As your own article points out:

"Mr. Bush and his Republican allies in Congress want to permanently extend that tax cut and almost all of the others that Congress passed in his first term. The cost of doing that would be more than $1 trillion over the next decade, a cost that would hit the Treasury at the same time that the spending on old-age benefits for retiring baby boomers begins to soar."


Where in the f**k are you living??? Bush hasn't been in office in over 2 years, congress has been controlled by Democrats for over 4 years. It was Obama and your liberals in the houses that passed the extension of tax cuts. Not Bush and Republicans.

As for her source, the NY Times can hardly be called a conservative newspaper, it's widely known for it's liberalism. So if anything the I'd say the $58,000 was still a high end figure. Your 100 dollar figure is just pure nonsense.


Details of the Bush 2003 Tax Cut Plan

Under the Bush tax cut plan, 92 million taxpayers would receive, on average, a tax cut of $1,083 in 2003. Taxpayers in the lowest tax brackets would receive the largest percentage reduction in their taxes

http://tax.cchgroup.com/news/taxbrief_01-08.pdf

For 2003, the standard deduction for joint filers would increase from $7,950 to $9,500.
The top dollar amount in the 15
percent bracket would increase
from $47,450 to $56,800. For
coupl e s abov e the 15 pe rc ent
bracket, that’s at least a 10 percentage point savings on this latter difference (25 percent bracket
ov e r the 15 pe rc ent brac k e t ) ,
which when combined with at
least a 25 percent bracket savings on the increase in the standard d e d u c t i o n , e q u a l s a t l e a s t $1,322.50 in the pocket of marriedcouples filing joint returns.
What the tax extension means for me | The Washington Post

There is another one that shows the lowest earners (under $19,356) have gained $539.00 those making under $37493 see a $808.00 savings .

Of course I understand that no amount of facts will change a closed mind, bet even a closed mind doesn't change the facts.
 
Where in the f**k are you living??? Bush hasn't been in office in over 2 years, congress has been controlled by Democrats for over 4 years. It was Obama and your liberals in the houses that passed the extension of tax cuts. Not Bush and Republicans.

I live in the ****ing place where the GOP held the middle class tax cuts hostage for the tax cuts for the wealthy. The Democratic House passed a bill to end the continuation of the tax cuts to the rich. The GOP filibuster stopped it in the Senate. The tax cuts for the wealthy are again targeted in Obama's 2012 budget proposal.



As for her source, the NY Times can hardly be called a conservative newspaper, it's widely known for it's liberalism. So if anything the I'd say the $58,000 was still a high end figure.

Thanks for your opinion.

Your 100 dollar figure is just pure nonsense.

Its not my figure. It was the figure used by Congress when the tax cuts were being considered.


Details of the Bush 2003 Tax Cut Plan

Under the Bush tax cut plan, 92 million taxpayers would receive, on average, a tax cut of $1,083 in 2003. Taxpayers in the lowest tax brackets would receive the largest percentage reduction in their taxes

Even if this source is correct, that's still 1% of the tax cut received on average from those making more than $1 million dollars.

And that doesn't even include the tax cuts enjoyed by the rich under the Reagan tax cuts for the last 30 years.
 
I live in the ****ing place where the GOP held the middle class tax cuts hostage for the tax cuts for the wealthy. The Democratic House passed a bill to end the continuation of the tax cuts to the rich. The GOP filibuster stopped it in the Senate. The tax cuts for the wealthy are again targeted in Obama's 2012 budget proposal.

Hey hey hey! Quit pointing out reality! Besides, the rich are special. They..umm...pay taxes (now let's not go into the uber rich who pay lower marginal tax rates than their employees) and they totally give to charities; something no other class in America does...EVER. And they supply us with jobs because they aren't moving production overseas and without those rich we could never have jobs because in America there are not droves of people waiting in the wings to take over who could do a better job. None in the least. Leave the rich alone!
 
=Catawba;1059355601]
I live in the ****ing place where the GOP held the middle class tax cuts hostage for the tax cuts for the wealthy. The Democratic House passed a bill to end the continuation of the tax cuts to the rich. The GOP filibuster stopped it in the Senate. The tax cuts for the wealthy are again targeted in Obama's 2012 budget proposal.

Thats just a bunch of bullchit …. nothing had to pass … nothing .. and the republicans sure weren't in any position to pass anything, and still aren't .. . Now according to you seeing it was only a $100 tax increase to everyone but the rich, why the hell didn't they just do nothing .. let the cuts expire.... no matter how hard you try, you can't put this back on the Republicans or Bush.

Thanks for your opinion.

It's hardly my opinion, just ask your liberal friends .. even they will tell you the NY Times is a liberal leaning newspaper. But like I say don't let facts get in the way.



Its not my figure. It was the figure used by Congress when the tax cuts were being considered.

Well it's wrong, what else can I say.

Even if this source is correct, that's still 1% of the tax cut received on average from those making more than $1 million dollars.

And that doesn't even include the tax cuts enjoyed by the rich under the Reagan tax cuts for the last 30 years.

We can play the numbers game all day, the simple truth is... the lower classes got the “biggest” percentage of tax cuts in Bush's tax cuts, and that is the only reason that it wasn't allowed to expire.

As for Reagan, well I'll never, ever agree that anyone regardless of their income should fork over 70% to the government. When you have to work 255 days out of 365 just to pay the government, it's not worth living here. There is no country in the world that has such a tax rate.
 
Hey hey hey! Quit pointing out reality! Besides, the rich are special. They..umm...pay taxes (now let's not go into the uber rich who pay lower marginal tax rates than their employees) and they totally give to charities; something no other class in America does...EVER. And they supply us with jobs because they aren't moving production overseas and without those rich we could never have jobs because in America there are not droves of people waiting in the wings to take over who could do a better job. None in the least. Leave the rich alone!

Penis envy is such a sad sad thing and really not becoming of you. Be grateful for what little you have.

Why should 'the rich' be taxed more when congress has consistently proven it cant be trusted to spend what it has? Why should the only segment of society that has demonstrated the ability to succeed continue to be punished to pay for the limp dicks that continue to prove they cant (or wont)? Why should the rich continue to be tasked to pay for all the pathetic crippled dependent pets in society? And why should they continue to carry the burden of a government that has spent the country into a 14 trillion dollar hole?

IF (as if it will ever happen) the fed ever demonstrates MANDATED fiscal responsibility and a MANDATED plan to pay down the debt, than i would be all for higher taxes to pay down the debt. But as long as MO taxes just means MO MONEY for politicians to spend...not just no but hell no. And all the whiny little ****s that keep complaining about the evil rich people MIGHT be better serve to look at THEMSELVES as the source of their massive failings.
 
We can play the numbers game all day, the simple truth is... the lower classes got the “biggest” percentage of tax cuts in Bush's tax cuts, and that is the only reason that it wasn't allowed to expire.

As for Reagan, well I'll never, ever agree that anyone regardless of their income should fork over 70% to the government. When you have to work 255 days out of 365 just to pay the government, it's not worth living here. There is no country in the world that has such a tax rate.

There is no benefit to the country for rich people taking their tax savings and investing it in tax free accounts overseas. It just makes it harder on the middle class and increases our national debt. We have 30 years of experience that shows that Reaganomics (trickle down theory) never worked. The rich get richer and more and more of he middle class are turned into the poor.
 
Penis envy is such a sad sad thing and really not becoming of you. Be grateful for what little you have.

Why should 'the rich' be taxed more when congress has consistently proven it cant be trusted to spend what it has? Why should the only segment of society that has demonstrated the ability to succeed continue to be punished to pay for the limp dicks that continue to prove they cant (or wont)? Why should the rich continue to be tasked to pay for all the pathetic crippled dependent pets in society? And why should they continue to carry the burden of a government that has spent the country into a 14 trillion dollar hole?

IF (as if it will ever happen) the fed ever demonstrates MANDATED fiscal responsibility and a MANDATED plan to pay down the debt, than i would be all for higher taxes to pay down the debt. But as long as MO taxes just means MO MONEY for politicians to spend...not just no but hell no. And all the whiny little ****s that keep complaining about the evil rich people MIGHT be better serve to look at THEMSELVES as the source of their massive failings.

They should be taxed equally. The rules are not set up that way, however. Nor did I call the evil rich. I said they are not special. They're the same as us all. Yet they can get the government to set up specialized tax brackets and breaks to reduce their marginal tax rate to be below the rest of ours. Why should they pay less in taxes? Being rich doesn't make one special, it merely makes them rich.

But continue with your penis jokes because it's doing wonders for your argument. :roll:
 
Back
Top Bottom