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Thread: Unions threaten Business

  1. #881
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    Re: Unions threaten Business

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    Yet non union auto employees continue to get jobs and continue to work while union jobs are being lost as companies cannot compete. What they do is make business non competitive in a world market and that puts added pressure on companies which cannot compete against non union shops. It is all about what the public will buy and it seems that more and more of the public are buying the non union brand. Unions have outlived their usefulness.
    I really don't put 100% of the blame on private sector unions...it takes two to tango. I think that far too many CEO's looked at their stock options and wanted smooth-sailing negotiations...some of them giving up the store to the unions in order to git 'er done. GM would be a classic example of this, in my opinion. Why on earth did management agree to job banks? The union contract called for 42 months of unemployment benefits + a GM spiff to bring "layed off" employees to within 95% of their working pay. What on earth?? Why would a company agree to this? Their stockholders should have skinned them alive.

    One of the benefits negotiated by the United Auto Workers was the jobs bank program, under which laid-off members received 95 percent of their take-home pay and benefits. More than 12,000 UAW members were paid this benefit in 2005.[21] In December 2008, the UAW agreed to suspend the program as a concession to help U.S. automakers during the auto industry crisis.
    United Auto Workers - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    But then we have the union side of things. Their greed is only usurped by management's stupidity....or maybe their self-serving motives which have nothing to do with what's best for the company.
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    Re: Unions threaten Business

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    Look, I don't care if you work for a union or not, obviously you need it as you apparently don't have the initiative or drive to make it on your own, so be it. Where is your proof that I labor under a false assumption. Ever deal with OCAW? Ever have a union thug throw a lit cigarette at a tanker truck you were driving in? Ever have someone shoot at you also while in a fully loaded tanker? Ever have an employer throw a punch at you for questioning why the protests?

    Your cup is always half empty and never accept personally responsibility for anything. Of course there are employers out there that take advantage of employees just like there are union employees that take advantage of their employer so what is your point? What is wrong with keeping your job based upon performance? What is wrong with getting an education on that job and then selling your services to the highest bidder? Why do you need a union to negotiate for you? Are you afraid to compete on your own merits? Weren't you looking for a job when you found the one you got?

    There are some very good union employees and I have seen union employees leave the union and become managers making more than they ever made in the union. How can that be?
    obviously you do care, as it seems to stick in your crawl when i defend union membership. as for the bulk of the rest of your post, you know nothing about me, so, where do you get off making assumptions about me? more of your bs....as for the rest, there is nothing wrong with getting an 'education ' as you put it, and if you can find better pay and benefits outside of a union shop so be it, i've no problem with that. i like working in a union shop, that is my preference, as i have worked in union and non union shops....you seem to think it is a sign of weakness, but yet admit that employers do take advantage of employees...???? the company has lawyers and accountants working for them, by pooling my resources with my co-workers, and by belonging to a union, i'm in a better posistion to better my pay and benefits when negotiating, as we have access to lawyers and accountants...i believe a couple of other posters have already gone over this...so, why is it bad for me to belong to a union? why is it so wrong to like having a contract, spelling out exactly what i can expect in pay and benefits? why are you ok with company execs having contracts, but not me? seems to me my production manager, my plant manager, my process techs, like having a contract with the company, that spells out what is expected from them, and what in return they can expect from the company...why is it so wrong if i want the same for me and my co-workers?

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    Re: Unions threaten Business

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    Look, I don't care if you work for a union or not, obviously you need it as you apparently don't have the initiative or drive to make it on your own, so be it. Where is your proof that I labor under a false assumption. Ever deal with OCAW? Ever have a union thug throw a lit cigarette at a tanker truck you were driving in? Ever have someone shoot at you also while in a fully loaded tanker? Ever have an employer throw a punch at you for questioning why the protests?

    Your cup is always half empty and never accept personally responsibility for anything. Of course there are employers out there that take advantage of employees just like there are union employees that take advantage of their employer so what is your point? What is wrong with keeping your job based upon performance? What is wrong with getting an education on that job and then selling your services to the highest bidder? Why do you need a union to negotiate for you? Are you afraid to compete on your own merits? Weren't you looking for a job when you found the one you got?

    There are some very good union employees and I have seen union employees leave the union and become managers making more than they ever made in the union. How can that be?
    as for the lit cigarette, and for having someone shoot at you, i only have your word for this, and i would ask, what was your role in this supposed confrontation? this is something that you can't back up on an internet forum without giving personal info....so, why bring it up? other than to smear unions?

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    Re: Unions threaten Business

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    Yet non union auto employees continue to get jobs and continue to work while union jobs are being lost as companies cannot compete. What they do is make business non competitive in a world market and that puts added pressure on companies which cannot compete against non union shops. It is all about what the public will buy and it seems that more and more of the public are buying the non union brand. Unions have outlived their usefulness.
    It has nothing to due whether or not the company is unionized. Most german companies are unionized and sell products quite well in the US. It is more the management and how competent they are. If they allow their automotive engineers and designers to produce cars the public wants. Those engineers and designers are non unionized and have done a very poor job in the US auto companies for a few decades
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    Re: Unions threaten Business

    Quote Originally Posted by randel View Post
    obviously you do care, as it seems to stick in your crawl when i defend union membership. as for the bulk of the rest of your post, you know nothing about me, so, where do you get off making assumptions about me? more of your bs....as for the rest, there is nothing wrong with getting an 'education ' as you put it, and if you can find better pay and benefits outside of a union shop so be it, i've no problem with that. i like working in a union shop, that is my preference, as i have worked in union and non union shops....you seem to think it is a sign of weakness, but yet admit that employers do take advantage of employees...???? the company has lawyers and accountants working for them, by pooling my resources with my co-workers, and by belonging to a union, i'm in a better posistion to better my pay and benefits when negotiating, as we have access to lawyers and accountants...i believe a couple of other posters have already gone over this...so, why is it bad for me to belong to a union? why is it so wrong to like having a contract, spelling out exactly what i can expect in pay and benefits? why are you ok with company execs having contracts, but not me? seems to me my production manager, my plant manager, my process techs, like having a contract with the company, that spells out what is expected from them, and what in return they can expect from the company...why is it so wrong if i want the same for me and my co-workers?
    I quite frankly don't care if you belong to a union as you have no impact on me, my family, or anyone else but yourself. If your union runs your business out of business like it has others, then you have no one else to blame for losing your job but yourself and your union.

    There is a reason for declining union membership, why don't you tell me what that is? You love the security that a union provides you but to think that they are maximizing your pay and benefits is simply your opinion. If you don't think enough of yourself and your ability then you are better off living in a union shop and getting whatever the union thinks you deserve. I had a lot more desire, ability, and initiative that apparently you have but to each their own.

  6. #886
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    Re: Unions threaten Business

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Tammerlain View Post
    It has nothing to due whether or not the company is unionized. Most german companies are unionized and sell products quite well in the US. It is more the management and how competent they are. If they allow their automotive engineers and designers to produce cars the public wants. Those engineers and designers are non unionized and have done a very poor job in the US auto companies for a few decades
    I will give you that for as Maggie stated, there are some very stupid management employees that sold their companies out and as a result opened the door for foreign companies to get a foothold here. The market decides what they want to buy and based upon the financial results it wasn't GM/Chrysler but instead they are buying Toyota and Honda.

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    Re: Unions threaten Business

    Quote Originally Posted by randel View Post
    as for the lit cigarette, and for having someone shoot at you, i only have your word for this, and i would ask, what was your role in this supposed confrontation? this is something that you can't back up on an internet forum without giving personal info....so, why bring it up? other than to smear unions?
    My role was to help direct non union drivers in the delivery of their product so the motoring public could get to and from work while union employees were on strike. Union thugs represent you well.

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    Re: Unions threaten Business

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    I will give you that for as Maggie stated, there are some very stupid management employees that sold their companies out and as a result opened the door for foreign companies to get a foothold here. The market decides what they want to buy and based upon the financial results it wasn't GM/Chrysler but instead they are buying Toyota and Honda.
    Two companies that were far better managed then those in the US. They designed and engineered cars consumers wanted. To do so they used non union employees. The US automakers using non union engineers and designers were unable to. German car companies using non union engineers and designers, but union factory workers were able to build engineer and design cars the US consumer wanted
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    Re: Unions threaten Business

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    I quite frankly don't care if you belong to a union as you have no impact on me, my family, or anyone else but yourself. If your union runs your business out of business like it has others, then you have no one else to blame for losing your job but yourself and your union.

    There is a reason for declining union membership, why don't you tell me what that is? You love the security that a union provides you but to think that they are maximizing your pay and benefits is simply your opinion. If you don't think enough of yourself and your ability then you are better off living in a union shop and getting whatever the union thinks you deserve. I had a lot more desire, ability, and initiative that apparently you have but to each their own.
    actually, uaw membership is up 6%

    UAW membership up 6 percent | detnews.com | The Detroit News

    you seem to think that every plant that went out of business and happened to be unionized, that this was the fault of the union....i suspect you know better than this, and if you were to think logically about this, you would figure out that it just isnt so. as for your 'personal' story, i could care less, if you were happy doing what you did, good for you, but your personal 'experiences' mean nothing to me.

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    Re: Unions threaten Business

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Tammerlain View Post
    Two companies that were far better managed then those in the US. They designed and engineered cars consumers wanted. To do so they used non union employees. The US automakers using non union engineers and designers were unable to. German car companies using non union engineers and designers, but union factory workers were able to build engineer and design cars the US consumer wanted
    One of the great things about this country is that the consumer decides what they want and who they buy from. That may or may not be union goods but since unions are a very small percentage of the private work force it looks to me like the consumer has spoken.

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