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Thread: Unions threaten Business

  1. #851
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    Re: Unions threaten Business

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    In your mind the perception is that teachers and police need unions, there is nothing I can provide that will change your mind nor do I care to. The numbers speak for themselves, union membership has been declining for years. My experience in dealing with unions and some very good employees in those unions form the basis of my statements. Many good people left the unions when they realized they were being held down. You don't believe it, tough, believe what you want and never reach your ultimate potential.
    Where is your data to back up your claims? My mind responds to facts - all I see is empty claims and personal attacks. Where are your facts? Where is the evidence? You can't expect a person to believe your claims without data to back them up.

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    Re: Unions threaten Business

    Quote Originally Posted by theplaydrive View Post
    Where is your data to back up your claims? My mind responds to facts - all I see is empty claims and personal attacks. Where are your facts? Where is the evidence? You can't expect a person to believe your claims without data to back them up.
    Where is yours? I really don't care what you believe but your opinion is hardly fact except in your mind. When you grow up you will realize that you never knew it all as a youngster. Get out in the real world and find out for yourself.

    Originally Posted by theplaydrive
    Most teachers and police officers don't go into their profession for the money...

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    Re: Unions threaten Business

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    Where is yours? I really don't care what you believe but your opinion is hardly fact except in your mind. When you grow up you will realize that you never knew it all as a youngster. Get out in the real world and find out for yourself.
    you should really apply this post to yourself...

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    Re: Unions threaten Business

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    Right, your cup is half empty and mine is half full. If you are as good as you think you are, you don't need a union to be rewarded for your efforts. A lot of good people in unions are always being held down.

    If you think this country is a union you really are out of touch with reality. This country is 50 independent sovereign states with their own set of laws and leadership. They are united under a Constitution but that doesn't change their independence and as our founders believed concentration of power at the state and local level. The purpose of the United States was for protection not equal outcome which unions try to promote.
    exactly who are you to determine if i need a union or not? i have already explained to you that you labor under a false assumptiion...you believe that if you work hard, your employer will reward you...sometimes yes, sometimes no..there is no guarantee that hard work will see that you are rewarded...i've worked places where those of us would bust our humps, and not get squat, but yet, those who sucked the boss's ass were rewarded very well...i don't play that game. you don't seem to believe that there are employers out there who take advantage of their employees.....you need a reality check.

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    Re: Unions threaten Business

    Quote Originally Posted by theplaydrive View Post
    Most teachers and police officers don't go into their profession for the money...
    yeah most teachers do it because

    1) they don't have the grades to get into the more competitive professions like medicine and law

    2)they don't have to work near the hours



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    Re: Unions threaten Business

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    yeah most teachers do it because

    1) they don't have the grades to get into the more competitive professions like medicine and law

    2)they don't have to work near the hours
    Good point, considering a lot of teachers in the Boston area have failed some basic employment test, although i will not group all of them in this category.

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    Re: Unions threaten Business

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    Where is yours? I really don't care what you believe but your opinion is hardly fact except in your mind. When you grow up you will realize that you never knew it all as a youngster. Get out in the real world and find out for yourself.
    I have not made a claim about whether the merit system works for teachers and police officers. I have not made a claim about . I don't think I know it all, which is why I'm asking you for facts. Where are your facts? Teach me.

    As far as my claim, yours would be much easier to prove than mine, nonetheless here's proof enough:

    Principals and new teachers in the survey were asked about their greatest sources of satisfaction and of stress and worry in their careers. Despite their different roles and different levels of experience, the top most satisfying aspects of being a teacher and being a principal are identical. Both teachers and principals are most likely to mention the students as their greatest sources of satisfaction (75% of new teachers and 77% of principals). The next most common reason cited by both groups is a sense of fulfillment and accomplishment (35% of new teachers and 35% of principals).
    http://www.eric.ed.gov/PDFS/ED488837.pdf

    So new teachers see students as the most satisfying part of their job...not money. Yours is easier to prove because you can just look at performance statistics and not rely on people's subjective responses to surveys.
    Last edited by ThePlayDrive; 04-02-11 at 02:38 PM.

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    Re: Unions threaten Business

    Quote Originally Posted by randel View Post
    exactly who are you to determine if i need a union or not? i have already explained to you that you labor under a false assumptiion...you believe that if you work hard, your employer will reward you...sometimes yes, sometimes no..there is no guarantee that hard work will see that you are rewarded...i've worked places where those of us would bust our humps, and not get squat, but yet, those who sucked the boss's ass were rewarded very well...i don't play that game. you don't seem to believe that there are employers out there who take advantage of their employees.....you need a reality check.
    Look, I don't care if you work for a union or not, obviously you need it as you apparently don't have the initiative or drive to make it on your own, so be it. Where is your proof that I labor under a false assumption. Ever deal with OCAW? Ever have a union thug throw a lit cigarette at a tanker truck you were driving in? Ever have someone shoot at you also while in a fully loaded tanker? Ever have an employer throw a punch at you for questioning why the protests?

    Your cup is always half empty and never accept personally responsibility for anything. Of course there are employers out there that take advantage of employees just like there are union employees that take advantage of their employer so what is your point? What is wrong with keeping your job based upon performance? What is wrong with getting an education on that job and then selling your services to the highest bidder? Why do you need a union to negotiate for you? Are you afraid to compete on your own merits? Weren't you looking for a job when you found the one you got?

    There are some very good union employees and I have seen union employees leave the union and become managers making more than they ever made in the union. How can that be?

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    Re: Unions threaten Business

    theplaydrive;1059386599]I have not made a claim about whether the merit system works for teachers and police officers. I have not made a claim about . I don't think I know it all, which is why I'm asking you for facts. Where are your facts? Teach me.
    Where are your facts that the cost of living in each area of the country is the same? You made the claim that MOST teachers and Police don't take their jobs based upon pay. That being the case why then do they need a union?

    As far as my claim, yours would be much easier to prove than mine, nonetheless here's proof enough:
    Does cost of living play into wages? Does it cost as much to live in TX as it does in Illinios? Why would a teacher in TX require as much as a teacher in Illinois?

    Principals and new teachers in the survey were asked about their greatest sources of satisfaction and of stress and worry in their careers. Despite their different roles and different levels of experience, the top most satisfying aspects of being a teacher and being a principal are identical. Both teachers and principals are most likely to mention the students as their greatest sources of satisfaction (75% of new teachers and 77% of principals). The next most common reason cited by both groups is a sense of fulfillment and accomplishment (35% of new teachers and 35% of principals).
    Good, then why do teachers need a union?
    Last edited by Conservative; 04-02-11 at 02:43 PM. Reason: spelling

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    Re: Unions threaten Business

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    Where are your facts that the cost of living in each area of the country is the same? You made the claim that MOST teachers and Police don't take their jobs based upon pay. That being the case why then do they need a union?



    Does cost of living play into wages? Does it cost as much to live in TX as it does in Illinios? Why would a teach in TX require as much as a teacher in Illinois?



    Good, then why do teachers need a union?

    they don't-by law public employees are treated the same and have full title VII, Rehab or ADA and ADEA protection



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