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Thread: Unions threaten Business

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    Re: Unions threaten Business

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    I do not need to prove your numbers wrong because they are irrelevant to the story of what brought Michigan down.
    You claimed that Engler cost the state 32 million dollars now prove it? I proved that Engler reduced the unemployment rate from 8.9% to 3.4% and those employed people helped offset any reduction in revenue. Prove me wrong?

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    Re: Unions threaten Business

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    I do not need to prove your numbers wrong because they are irrelevant to the story of what brought Michigan down.
    Unions. Damned unions. Destroyed the auto industry. Killed Detroit. Damned Unions.

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    Re: Unions threaten Business

    I absolutely do not understand how anyone could justify the UAW job bank program:

    According to that document, the basic guarantee from the 1987 agreement is that no eligible employee will be laid off over the term of the agreement, except under the following specific circumstances. 1)Reduced customer demand, a maximum of 42 weeks over the life of the agreement (commonly known as loss of marketshare); 2)Acts of God or other conditions beyond the control of management; 3)Conclusion of an assignment known in advance to be temporary; and 4) Plant rearrangement or model changeover.

    Eligible employees can not be laid off because of new technology (robots), sourcing decisions, or company-implimented efficiency actions. There are generally three states of layoff: temporary layoffs where workers know their return date, indefinite layoffs where workers get 48 weeks of unemployment benefits and a supplemental from their employer equal to 100 percent of your salary. After 48 weeks workers are reemployed by the Job Bank, at which time they receive 95 percent of their salary. They don’t get seniority, but they do continue to receive health benefits. While in protected status, employees may be assigned to training programs, certain non-traditional jobs, openings at other UAW locations (they only have to accept them if the job is within 100 miles of their home, otherwise they can stay in job banks), and other assignments “consistent with the intent of the program.”
    Unraveling The UAW Job Bank | The Truth About Cars

    This program was funded by GM to the tune of $2 billion by GM -- and the exact details kept under wraps by GM and the union.

    But who do I really blame? GM. No wonder they went bankrupt as this is just the tip of the iceburg of the ridiculous union demands they agreed to. And, honestly, I can't understand why there wasn't a shareholder suit against management.

    So, to put it into perspective, unions are greedy pigs. And those who negotiate with them are, too -- for I'll never believe these demands were agreed to for any other reason than stock prices/options/$$$ in CEOs pockets. Certainly this one made absolutely no sense for any other reason.

    Edit: Perhaps there is hope --

    The UAW has seen a dramatic decline in membership since the 1970s. Membership topped 1.5 million in 1979, falling to 540,000 in 2006. Then the Great Recession hit, with GM and Chrysler going bankrupt. Membership fell to 390,000 active members in 2010.
    Last edited by MaggieD; 03-28-11 at 04:41 PM.
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    Re: Unions threaten Business

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    You claimed that Engler cost the state 32 million dollars now prove it? I proved that Engler reduced the unemployment rate from 8.9% to 3.4% and those employed people helped offset any reduction in revenue. Prove me wrong?
    What I want to prove is that you cannot read or comprehend. I gave you this before , many pages ago. Did ;you not read it then? Did you not comprehend it then? Did you not reproduce it in your own post #677? Why are you asking me this again?

    Former Governors - Governor John Engler Biography


    Governor Engler has signed 32 tax cuts into law, saving taxpayers nearly $32 billion. The state inheritance tax and capital gains taxes have been eliminated. Personal exemptions for children, seniors and the disabled have been increased. The personal income tax rate is being reduced to 3.9 percent -- the lowest level in a quarter century -- and Michigan's main tax on business is being phased out completely.
    Got that?
    Last edited by haymarket; 03-28-11 at 04:57 PM.
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    Re: Unions threaten Business

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    Unions. Damned unions. Destroyed the auto industry. Killed Detroit. Damned Unions.
    When you print my comment and then yours - there should be some relationship between the two. There is not in your rant.

    In case you have not looked recently, unions are still there in the Auto biz and the companies are making big profits.
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    Re: Unions threaten Business

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    because the govt. isn't part of the free market, that is like a frog competing against an allegator. it isn't the role of the govt. to create individual wealth as that is the role of the private sector. Govt. prints money whereas business and the states don't. You really don't understand risk taking, investment in private business, P&L Responsibilities, shareholder responsibilities. None of those have anything to do with the govt.
    Says who, you? I think I understand your position pretty well, you want a free market as long as it benefits you, I see no reason why the government can't get into the business end. There are lots of unemployed qualified people from white collar to blue collar that are looking for work so their is no employee skill sets that can't be satisfied, as you said we I mean the government does print the money so the start up capital is no problem. I think it would be great to see what would happen when a company owned by the people, run by the people emerged into the market place? Imagine every cent of profit could be used to employ Americans in America and towards expansion and R&D. The money would not be being used to ship our work overseas or hidden away in some swiss bank account nor would it be going to pay some outrageous salary and bonus packages to the top CEOs

    You know what they say when it's your money you have to look a little harder at how you spend it

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    Re: Unions threaten Business

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    I absolutely do not understand how anyone could justify the UAW job bank program:

    Unraveling The UAW Job Bank | The Truth About Cars

    This program was funded by GM to the tune of $2 billion by GM -- and the exact details kept under wraps by GM and the union.

    But who do I really blame? GM. No wonder they went bankrupt as this is just the tip of the iceburg of the ridiculous union demands they agreed to. And, honestly, I can't understand why there wasn't a shareholder suit against management.

    So, to put it into perspective, unions are greedy pigs. And those who negotiate with them are, too -- for I'll never believe these demands were agreed to for any other reason than stock prices/options/$$$ in CEOs pockets. Certainly this one made absolutely no sense for any other reason.

    Edit: Perhaps there is hope --
    Maggie it is not very becoming for you to reference other people as "greedy pigs". The UAW negotiates a contract with the Company. Neither side has a gun to the head of the other, both sides have to agree to the new contract, If either side is not happy with the contract they should not sign it

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    Re: Unions threaten Business

    Quote Originally Posted by EarlzP View Post
    Maggie it is not very becoming for you to reference other people as "greedy pigs". The UAW negotiates a contract with the Company. Neither side has a gun to the head of the other, both sides have to agree to the new contract, If either side is not happy with the contract they should not sign it
    Guess I must listen to Gordon Ramsay too much.

    Did you not notice I called both sides greedy pigs? Betcha' missed that because I agree with you.
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    Re: Unions threaten Business

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    What I want to prove is that you cannot read or comprehend. I gave you this before , many pages ago. Did ;you not read it then? Did you not comprehend it then? Did you not reproduce it in your own post #677? Why are you asking me this again?

    Former Governors - Governor John Engler Biography

    Got that?
    Right, now I can see why you are so upset. For some reason saving the taxpayers 32 billion is a cost to the state but creating 800,000 jobs has no affect on govt. revenue? I feel your pain.

    Governor Engler has signed 32 tax cuts into law, saving taxpayers nearly $32 billion. The state inheritance tax and capital gains taxes have been eliminated. Personal exemptions for children, seniors and the disabled have been increased. The personal income tax rate is being reduced to 3.9 percent -- the lowest level in a quarter century -- and Michigan's main tax on business is being phased out completely.

    Engler's economic policies have helped to create more than 800,000 jobs in Michigan, cutting the state's unemployment rate from over 9 percent the year he took office to 3.4 percent in 2000 - the lowest annual level ever recorded. For an unprecedented five years in a row, Michigan has led the nation with the most new factories and expansion projects.. As part of the nation's most forward-looking economic development strategy, $1 billion is being invested in a "Life Sciences Corridor" from Ann Arbor to Grand Rapids, and a high-tech cybercourt to hear business disputes is also in the works. In addition, Governor Engler's NextEnergy initiative is positioning Michigan to be an international cluster of innovation in the development and commercialization of alternative energy technologies, including hydrogen fuel cells.
    Looks to me like Democrats took a thriving growing economy and destroyed it.

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    Re: Unions threaten Business

    Quote Originally Posted by EarlzP View Post
    Says who, you? I think I understand your position pretty well, you want a free market as long as it benefits you, I see no reason why the government can't get into the business end. There are lots of unemployed qualified people from white collar to blue collar that are looking for work so their is no employee skill sets that can't be satisfied, as you said we I mean the government does print the money so the start up capital is no problem. I think it would be great to see what would happen when a company owned by the people, run by the people emerged into the market place? Imagine every cent of profit could be used to employ Americans in America and towards expansion and R&D. The money would not be being used to ship our work overseas or hidden away in some swiss bank account nor would it be going to pay some outrageous salary and bonus packages to the top CEOs

    You know what they say when it's your money you have to look a little harder at how you spend it
    How is any entity that can print money benefit the free marrket capitalistic economy? That destroys business as there is no incentive to produce positive results. I have no problem competing in the private sector and did for 35 years. I have a record in that private sector that I am quite proud of so I am willing to take personal responsibility for my actions. Much of private business is run by the people, called shareholders who have a financial stake in the business, and individuals who benefit or face the consequences for their own actions. Compare that to the govt. where there are no consequences for failure, just print more money.

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