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Thread: Unions threaten Business

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    Re: Unions threaten Business

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    In other words, if its not your tail in the wringer you really don't give two farts about it since if you did it would cause you to have to criticize your own sainted political party. Some principles you got there pal.
    LOL, your claim that it is a violation of the Constitution doesn't seem to jive with the people that passed the legislation. Looks like that is for the courts to decide. You willing to abide by the court decision? Doesn't seem that Obama is willing to abide by that decision on healthcare. My tail is in TX not Michigan and can assure you that if our legislature passed a bill that violated the state and Federal Constitution it would be challenged in court. What you are saying is that the Republicans in Michigan willingly and knowingly violated the Federal Constitution and you have yet to prove that. That is for the courts to decide.

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    Re: Unions threaten Business

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    In other words, if its not your tail in the wringer you really don't give two farts about it since if you did it would cause you to have to criticize your own sainted political party. Some principles you got there pal.
    In other words...Michigan is in a financial crisis that is continuing to grow and unless someone ACTS responsibly the entire economuc will collapse even FURTHER. But since it involves your precious unions (because that is ALL you are about) tail in the wringer, you stand against it...to hell with what is happening to your cities and states economy and budget. Some principles you got there pal.

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    Re: Unions threaten Business

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    http://www.michigan.gov/documents/sn...2_347889_7.pdf

    Now I understand it. (I think.) This power has been around for years and years in Michigan. This new legislation simply extends authority to have a judge negate union contracts. Again, it's all about the unions. Unions are a big part of local governments' problems. Had they shown they gave a damn, this legislation wouldn't have been necessary.
    If Haymarlet is promoting it...you can rest assured...it is about preserving Unions...at the expense of the citizens of the state, budgets, and all else.

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    Re: Unions threaten Business

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    #1 -- Unions did not agree to cuts. They gave lip service to cuts.
    #2 -- Contracts entered into while the Dems hid out in Illinois did not have any cuts in them.
    #3 -- Without restricting their collective bargaining powers, they'd just bargain any cuts they did agree to right back the next time.
    Wisconsin teacher unions offer concessions (Wizbang)

    Top leaders of two of Wisconsin's largest public employee unions announced they are willing to accept the financial concessions called for in [Governor] Walker's plan, but will not accept the loss of collective bargaining rights.


    Walker did not want to negotiate he only wants to enforce his will, being in a union does not eliminate future contract negotiations,Walker was more interested in trying to drive out the unions then he was in reducing the deficit through honest negotiations

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    Re: Unions threaten Business

    Quote Originally Posted by EarlzP View Post
    Wisconsin teacher unions offer concessions (Wizbang)

    Top leaders of two of Wisconsin's largest public employee unions announced they are willing to accept the financial concessions called for in [Governor] Walker's plan, but will not accept the loss of collective bargaining rights.


    Walker did not want to negotiate he only wants to enforce his will, being in a union does not eliminate future contract negotiations,Walker was more interested in trying to drive out the unions then he was in reducing the deficit through honest negotiations
    Do you live in Wisconsin? You seem to be spouting the liberal talking points without really knowing what was in the legislation. I suggest you read it and then you will realize what is in the bill and not rely on partisan spin. All collective bargaining rights aren't being removed, only the benefits and mandatory union membership. You have a problem with people writing a check to the unions instead of a payroll deduction? That is why the unions are fighting so hard and it has nothing to do with concessions.

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    Re: Unions threaten Business

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    If it violates Michigan law than Im sure the Michigan state supreme court will resolve that matter, now wont they. In the meantime...WHY did the republican governor get elected? What is Michigans economic status? How are Michigans cities contributing to the destruction of Michigans economy. What have the democrats done to so completely hose the state? How are your cities school systems working out? How many have they had to close because individual cities continue to mismanage their budgets? Why did the Michigan governor need to step in and promote said 'emergency' legislation? You DID read your own article, right?
    That is an extremely cavalier attitude you have when it involves taking away peoples rights. I guess it would be too much to ask you to go against your fellow worshippers bowing before the same ideological altar?

    Michigan got into trouble for two reasons.
    First, John Engler was Governor for 12 years and he cut $32 billion dollars of revenue out of the state budget.
    Former Governors - Governor John Engler Biography

    Governor Engler has signed 32 tax cuts into law, saving taxpayers nearly $32 billion. The state inheritance tax and capital gains taxes have been eliminated. Personal exemptions for children, seniors and the disabled have been increased. The personal income tax rate is being reduced to 3.9 percent -- the lowest level in a quarter century -- and Michigan's main tax on business is being phased out completely
    The sad thing is that the promised increase in jobs proved to be only temporary while the tax cuts were permanent. Republicans have held the State Senate and have refused to correct Michigans out of date tax structure with anything more than minor tinkering around the edges.

    For example, our neighbor state to the South - Ohio has a state progressive income tax while we do not.

    As the GOP has become a party of right wing ideologues, Michigan has been no exception. The party that tells us that government will not solve our problems has made surethat government in this state does not work. Long before the national GOP became the Party of NO in Washington in 2009, the Michigan Senate was dominated by Republican zealots who wanted to make sure government in Michigan did not work.

    And there is the fundamental problem: entrusting government to people who hate government and talk about it with scorn at each and every opportunity.

    Second, Michigan was the one of the main manufacturing hubs in the nation and the home of the auto business. As the Big Three lost market share to foreign manufacturers and the federal government did not protect our manufacturing base, it hurt Michigan's economy and jobs hard.
    Last edited by haymarket; 03-28-11 at 01:52 PM.
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    Re: Unions threaten Business

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    That is an extremely cavalier attitude you have when it involves taking away peoples rights. I guess it would be too much to ask you to go against your fellow worshippers bowing before the same ideological altar?

    Michigan got into trouble for two reasons.
    First, John Engler was Governor for 12 years and he cut $32 billion dollars of revenue out of the state budget.
    Former Governors - Governor John Engler Biography



    The sad thing is that the promised increase in jobs proved to be only temporary while the tax cuts were permanent. Republicans have held the State Senate and have refused to correct Michigans out of date tax structure with anything more than minor tinkering around the edges.

    For example, our neighbor state to the South - Ohio has a state progressive income tax while we do not.

    Second, Michigan was the one of the main manufacturing hubs in the nation and the home of the auto business. As the Big Three lost market share to foreign manufacturers and the federal government did not protect our manufacturing base, it hurt Michigan's economy and jobs hard.
    Wow, there you go again, focused on revenue, but never spending. Has a liberal ever seen a social program that deserves cuts? Spending causes debt not lost revenue. If you had lost revenue would you continue to spend? You are so predictable, keep spending in the name of compassion while never getting compassionate results. Keep attacking people and business keeping more of their own money.

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    Re: Unions threaten Business

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    LOL, your claim that it is a violation of the Constitution doesn't seem to jive with the people that passed the legislation. Looks like that is for the courts to decide. You willing to abide by the court decision? Doesn't seem that Obama is willing to abide by that decision on healthcare. My tail is in TX not Michigan and can assure you that if our legislature passed a bill that violated the state and Federal Constitution it would be challenged in court. What you are saying is that the Republicans in Michigan willingly and knowingly violated the Federal Constitution and you have yet to prove that. That is for the courts to decide.
    News flash for you Conservative: every law every ruled as unconstitutional was deemed legit with the folks that first passed it. So what?
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    Re: Unions threaten Business

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    Wow, there you go again, focused on revenue, but never spending. Has a liberal ever seen a social program that deserves cuts? Spending causes debt not lost revenue. If you had lost revenue would you continue to spend? You are so predictable, keep spending in the name of compassion while never getting compassionate results. Keep attacking people and business keeping more of their own money.
    There are two sides to every budget and both must be examined. You seem to ignore that reality in favor of faith and ideology. John Engler himself brags about taking $32 billion out of the state coffers. Only a total and complete idiot would believe that such a reckless move would not endanger the financial health of the state. Of course, Engler was a total and complete idiot.
    __________________________________________________ _
    There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.... John Rogers

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    Re: Unions threaten Business

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    That is an extremely cavalier attitude you have when it involves taking away peoples rights. I guess it would be too much to ask you to go against your fellow worshippers bowing before the same ideological altar?

    Michigan got into trouble for two reasons.
    First, John Engler was Governor for 12 years and he cut $32 billion dollars of revenue out of the state budget.
    Former Governors - Governor John Engler Biography



    The sad thing is that the promised increase in jobs proved to be only temporary while the tax cuts were permanent. Republicans have held the State Senate and have refused to correct Michigans out of date tax structure with anything more than minor tinkering around the edges.

    For example, our neighbor state to the South - Ohio has a state progressive income tax while we do not.

    As the GOP has become a party of right wing ideologues, Michigan has been no exception. The party that tells us that government will not solve our problems has made surethat government in this state does not work. Long before the national GOP became the Party of NO in Washington in 2009, the Michigan Senate was dominated by Republican zealots who wanted to make sure government in Michigan did not work.

    And there is the fundamental problem: entrusting government to people who hate government and talk about it with scorn at each and every opportunity.

    Second, Michigan was the one of the main manufacturing hubs in the nation and the home of the auto business. As the Big Three lost market share to foreign manufacturers and the federal government did not protect our manufacturing base, it hurt Michigan's economy and jobs hard.
    Here are the Engler unemployment numbers, compare those to the 10.4% today. Guess you got it wrong again. I know that bls numbers don't trump your opinions but it does seem that his numbers are much better than they are under Democrat leadership the past 8 years.

    Year Period rate
    1991 Jan 8.9
    1992 Jan 9.6
    1993 Jan 7.8
    1995 Jan 5.2
    1996 Jan 5
    1997 Jan 4.7
    1998 Jan 4.1
    1999 Jan 4
    2000 Jan 3.4
    2001 Dec 6.2

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