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Thread: Unions threaten Business

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    Re: Unions threaten Business

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    I looked that up. Wow. I wish Illinois had something like that. I don't see it as taking away the rights of local people to elect and have their own local government. I look at it as the state being able to step in and fix things that have been broken. Interesting. One thing that bothers me that I read was that it gives the state the right to break contracts. I don't agree with that. I'm betting that won't stand up to the challenge that's sure to come. It's sure got the unions steppin' to, though. Emergency Manager law quickly impacting unions in Michigan | The Washington Independent


    I find it interesting that Republican governors are really taking flack while trying to stop the tax/spend cycle -- while, at the Federal level, nothing of any consequence is really happening. Frankly, though? We should be more concerned with what's going on at the state level -- since, for most people, that's probably where more of their tax dollars go.
    We have a gaping hole in our economy that can only be filled by jobs, cutting jobs and pay will put a band aid on the wound but the virus that caused the wound will continue to spread. The rich will eventually fall to the virus unless the virus is recognized and treated.

    The teachers offered to take a reduction of pay to help but Gov. Walker was not satisfied and won't be until he can restrict their collective bargaining rights. Gov Walker and the rest of the republican Governors will see the impact of their actions in the 2012 elections

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    Re: Unions threaten Business

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    Maggie - you are a smart cookie. Now think this through. If the people cannot vote for their local government and it can be destroyed with one dictate of the State - how does that not concern you? I would think that the right of people to have their own government of the people, by the people and for the people would be a major issue for you.
    Setting the record straight: The Emergency Manager legislation is a proactive approach to preventing a local unit of government from experiencing a financial emergency. An Emergency Manager would be appointed only in the event of a municipal financial emergency....Appointing an emergency manager would minimize the likelihood that a local unit of government would be unable to provide basic services to its citizens.

    State intervention on local unit financial emergencies is not new, nor is only supported by Republicans: Michigan has had an emergency financial manager law on the books since 1988. The original law was signed by Democrat governor James Blanchard.

    An emergency financial manager has only been put in place a total of 10 times in more than 20 years. Emergency financial managers have been utilized by both Republican and Democrat governors. State Treasurer Andy Dillon, who previously served as the Democrat Speaker of the House, is leading the administration’s effort to ensure emergency managers that may be necessary in the future are properly trained.

    Despite the misinformation being spread by the media and on the Internet, the legislation does not give the governor the ability to remove elected officials at will. Claims that it does are simply not true. The legislation includes a series of triggers, one of which must occur before a review of a local unit’s finances is even conducted, such as failure by the local unit of government to pay creditors or make timely pension contributions.Even if an emergency manager is put in place, local elected officials can only be removed from office if they refuse to provide information or assistance.

    The governor already has – and has had – the ability to put an emergency financial manager in place since 1988.
    The governor already has – and has had – the ability to remove elected officials for failing to do their duty or for corruption. This power was established in Michigan’s 1963 constitution. Former Democrat Governor Jennifer Granholm used this power to conduct removal hearings for Kwame Kilpatrick, the former Detroit mayor who stepped down from office and was then later convicted of corruption.

    An Emergency Manager can only be put in place if local elected officials fail to take the steps necessary to prevent a financial emergency. Emergency managers are accountable to both the governor and the Legislature, which in turn are both accountable to voters.

    The goal is to give emergency managers the tools they need to protect residents and address local government financial emergencies. Labor contracts make up the bulk of local government expenses. Because emergency financial managers do not currently have power to adequately address these issues, long-term financial problems are not solved.

    This legislation does not eliminate collective bargaining: Although an emergency manager may void contracts to prevent the local unit of government from going into bankruptcy, new agreements still could come through the collective bargaining process. If the municipality was to enter bankruptcy, a judge would have sweeping powers to undo contracts. Bankruptcy is a much bigger threat to collective bargaining.

    The governor has repeatedly said he will work within the collective bargaining system.
    http://www.michigan.gov/documents/sn...2_347889_7.pdf

    Now I understand it. (I think.) This power has been around for years and years in Michigan. This new legislation simply extends authority to have a judge negate union contracts. Again, it's all about the unions. Unions are a big part of local governments' problems. Had they shown they gave a damn, this legislation wouldn't have been necessary.
    The devil whispered in my ear, "You cannot withstand the storm." I whispered back, "I am ​the storm."

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    Re: Unions threaten Business

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    Sounds like you have a problem in Michigan now but didn't have a problem when Demcrats were bankrupting the states. you claim it is a violation of the Constitution? If so challenge it in court and stop you whining about the vote of the people of Michigan to put Republicans in charge.
    It sounds like you have a problem with the 1st Amendment

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    Re: Unions threaten Business

    Quote Originally Posted by EarlzP View Post
    The teachers offered to take a reduction of pay to help but Gov. Walker was not satisfied and won't be until he can restrict their collective bargaining rights. Gov Walker and the rest of the republican Governors will see the impact of their actions in the 2012 elections
    #1 -- Unions did not agree to cuts. They gave lip service to cuts.
    #2 -- Contracts entered into while the Dems hid out in Illinois did not have any cuts in them.
    #3 -- Without restricting their collective bargaining powers, they'd just bargain any cuts they did agree to right back the next time.
    The devil whispered in my ear, "You cannot withstand the storm." I whispered back, "I am ​the storm."

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    Re: Unions threaten Business

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    Sounds like you have a problem in Michigan now but didn't have a problem when Demcrats were bankrupting the states. you claim it is a violation of the Constitution? If so challenge it in court and stop you whining about the vote of the people of Michigan to put Republicans in charge.
    It is being challenged. You are again... for how many times is it now????? You are again confusing apples and cinder blocks. Yes, Michigan has a financial problem that needs to be addressed within the limits of the law, and both the State and National Constitution. And what they have done not only violates all those things but also violates basic American principles and basic Republican Party principles of both Lincoln and Reagan. The fact that these bills were passed without one supporting Democratic vote makes them the property of the Michigan Republican party. That is undeniable.

    I did not realize that complaining about violations about Constitutional rights and American principles was looked upon by your ilk as "whining". But you learn something new each day.
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    Re: Unions threaten Business

    Quote Originally Posted by EarlzP View Post
    It sounds like you have a problem with the 1st Amendment
    Since I don't live in Michigan what happens there doesn't affect the rest of the country. I am certain if a law that violated the U.S. Constitution or the state Constitution were passed in TX it would be challenged in court. Where is that challenge in Michigan?

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    Re: Unions threaten Business

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    http://www.michigan.gov/documents/sn...2_347889_7.pdf

    Now I understand it. (I think.) This power has been around for years and years in Michigan. This new legislation simply extends authority to have a judge negate union contracts. Again, it's all about the unions. Unions are a big part of local governments' problems. Had they shown they gave a damn, this legislation wouldn't have been necessary.
    No Maggie. This new law does the opposite of what the old law prohibited. Its not about the unions. Its about the Constitution.
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    Re: Unions threaten Business

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    It is being challenged. You are again... for how many times is it now????? You are again confusing apples and cinder blocks. Yes, Michigan has a financial problem that needs to be addressed within the limits of the law, and both the State and National Constitution. And what they have done not only violates all those things but also violates basic American principles and basic Republican Party principles of both Lincoln and Reagan. The fact that these bills were passed without one supporting Democratic vote makes them the property of the Michigan Republican party. That is undeniable.

    I did not realize that complaining about violations about Constitutional rights and American principles was looked upon by your ilk as "whining". But you learn something new each day.
    Good luck in the challenge in the courts to what you claim is a violation of the U.S. Constitution. Hope you feel the same way about mandated healthcare coverage from Obamacare?

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    Re: Unions threaten Business

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    Since I don't live in Michigan what happens there doesn't affect the rest of the country. I am certain if a law that violated the U.S. Constitution or the state Constitution were passed in TX it would be challenged in court. Where is that challenge in Michigan?
    In other words, if its not your tail in the wringer you really don't give two farts about it since if you did it would cause you to have to criticize your own sainted political party. Some principles you got there pal.
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    Re: Unions threaten Business

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    ANSWER: None of your questions have anything to do with the right of the people to elect and have their own government. That is a basic American principle that trumps any of your questions. The solution crafted violates the US Constitution. It violates the Michigan Constitution.

    None of your questions and no answers to your questions change that. So please take your strawmen back into the barn and deal with the situation as it is.
    If it violates Michigan law than Im sure the Michigan state supreme court will resolve that matter, now wont they. In the meantime...WHY did the republican governor get elected? What is Michigans economic status? How are Michigans cities contributing to the destruction of Michigans economy. What have the democrats done to so completely hose the state? How are your cities school systems working out? How many have they had to close because individual cities continue to mismanage their budgets? Why did the Michigan governor need to step in and promote said 'emergency' legislation? You DID read your own article, right?

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