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Thread: Unions threaten Business

  1. #451
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    Re: Unions threaten Business

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    They should be taxed equally.
    agreed. if those darn rich people are paying lower marginal tax rates (mind you, this is if you count unrealized capital gains, which is to say that if they are doing so, it is because they are investing in the economy), then we need a flat tax to bring them back down to size!

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    Re: Unions threaten Business

    =Catawba;1059356030]The same ones that were creating them before, and new companies that recognize the need to make products that don't depend on fossil fuels. We have a whole new infrastructure to build as well to replace the one that is now dependent on oil. That is going to require lots of jobs here in this country, not overseas.
    Again with the green jobs, while that at some time in the future might become a reality, how are we suppose to last until then? What are we building the infrastructure for, even that hasn't been determined yet. So you are saying that when we decide what that alternate fuel is going to be, and it's developed well enough to be affordable to the public, then we can begin creating all those jobs, so for the next 10 to 15 years, we just keep going downhill? Nice plan, but in my opinion, we need to do something now.


    Taxes were cut from 80% to 28% and then raised back up to 38%. That still left 42% of the tax cuts from 1981 in place. We need to cut military spending again. Bush doubled it and started two wars. While I never cared for Clinton, he was the first president since the 1981 tax cuts (they all used SS to offset debt) to have a budget surplus.
    I agree as far as the budget goes, he was the best in recent history, but even then, with the cuts, and the tax increases, he still increased our debt by 1.5 trillion dollars. There can be no purer showing of government overspending then during the Clinton years.... and please I'm not just blaming Clinton, Republicans were just as much at fault.

    Right, because the rich were still getting their 42% tax break from 1981.
    I have never said that spending cuts were going to fix the problem, but just as you keep blaming the tax cuts for the last 30 years, just as much blame belongs on the excessive government spending over the same period of time. So yes “now” we are going to have to raise taxes as well as cut spending. Now everyone is going to have to take a hit, including the rich, middle class and the poor.



    It only rose for the rich. The middle class standard of living has declined, and the national debt grew because we no longer had enough revenues to pay the bills. Yes, spending cut have to be made, but spending cuts will not be enough and they will no address the inequality created by the tax cuts for the wealthy.
    Well I wasn't talking about individual revenues , I was talking about tax revenues, and during that time our government outspent the increased taxes being collected.

    Those that want to leave can leave. My guess is no more will leave than have withdrawn their taxable income already. The middle class survived from 1944 to 1981 with a progressive tax system much better than we have since it was slashed.
    Again in my opinion, you might as well face up to it, we are never again going to see taxes anywhere near that 70%.

    Without education, there will be no one smart enough to create businesses in the future that can compete with the superior education provided in other countries. We have already fallen to the #9 spot in education.
    Well the whole education thing is for another thread, as we now spend more per student (k-12) than anyone else in the world, and our results are dropping. The answer in Washington is the same as it always is, throw even more money at it.

    I have researched it as well. We have the most expensive system and other systems are rated higher in serving everyone. Its only the best if you are rich. 1 in 7 Americans are now poor.
    See this is why I have problems with liberal thinking, even at the rate of 1 in 7 being poor, that means that 85 percent of the population is receiving quality health care. So why destroy that system? In My opinion, it would be much better to work on our existing system that has served us well for the last 50 years, fix what is broken in it, figure out cost cutting ways to help get those 15% of the people it doesn't serve as well. But no we have to destroy our present system to aid 15% of the people and screw those 85% that it works for .. it just doesn't make sense to me.

    What you failed to notice is that half the country has been suffering for years, while the rich got richer.
    Well as I can say, is me, my bothers, and our friends have not been suffering in any of the ways you imply. In fact we had prospered in the last 30 years, been smart, invested wisely, didn't over extend ourselves with credit, and are now rising this storm out. It's something called personal responsibility, something that seems to be sorely lacking in this country.

  3. #453
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    Re: Unions threaten Business

    Quote Originally Posted by EarlzP View Post
    In todays economy Walmart does provide employent and a shopping place where consumers can buy low cost products that were made mainly overseas utilizing low cost labor, the problem is that they buy from foreign countries employing foreign workers and sell their products here to American consumers. Walmart does not manufacture any thing and the manufacturing that they do contribute to is mostly from foreign countries. Walmart does employ Americans but how many smaller stores shut down and go out of business laying off Americans, Bottom line they purchase low cost products mostly made overseas.

    Refresh my memory where did I say that we should hire more government employees? We are in agreement as far as the need to reinvigorate the American industrial base and we definitely need to provide incentives before we are going to see any investments in America, so here is my suggestion instead of allowing the tax cuts to continue use that money as an incentive to promote job creation. Tax cuts to the unemployed mean nothing, tax cuts to those working below the poverty level mean nothing, what is that Chinese proverb? Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish and you feed him for a lifetime. Give a person an unemployment or welfare check and you can feed them for a week, Give people a job and they can feed them selves for a life time

    We need to put people to work that means we need to stimulate job growth here in the USA not in China or any other foreign country. It should be obvious by now that trickle down does not work and that we need to do some thing different then we have been doing. Continuing doing what we have been doing will only increase the deficit and not create new jobs or generate the revenue needed to support our economy and our way of life
    Actually I AGREE with you re putting people to work. We dont do that by making up a bunch of jobs and going deeper into debt. We do that by enticing American businesses to bring back industrial jobs...first with the carrot (incentives) and then with the stick (tariffs on goods produced by American companies in foreign lands). We encourage the industrial leaders and labor to sit down and work out realistic profit and wage levels. Its really not that difficult a concept. It requires sacrifice on both the parts of labor and industry.

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    Re: Unions threaten Business

    Quote Originally Posted by EarlzP View Post
    So in your opinion what is going to happen to help us get out of this? We need jobs big business is not going to build here, why should they?Where are the jobs going to come from? How do we save our economy? Do you really think that cutting more jobs is the answer, the only thing cutting more jobs does is it delays the inevitable economic slide we are in
    it's been my contention all along, that we needs jobs, and we must create a atmosphere to draw corporations and business here, we must remake the US an attractive place to start and run a business profitably. I'm sure that demonizing business and corporations, having the highest corporate tax rates in the world, or having one of, if not the highest, per hour wages in the world, are things that don't help.

    I don't know what the answer is, but I would think one of the best things would be to sit down with CEO's and other top brass of the business world and find out what it would take to make moving or building a business here more attractive to them. Then consider implementing those things.

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    Re: Unions threaten Business

    Quote Originally Posted by hazlnut View Post
    You're a great reciter of Fox News talking points. But if you reason it out...

    People who work in HR are relatively poor compared to the top 1%.

    So, yes, everyone gets hired by a 'poor' person.
    more stupidity. I was hired by the two top name partners at my first law job.

    not the HR department



  6. #456
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    Re: Unions threaten Business

    Quote Originally Posted by The Barbarian View Post
    Again with the green jobs, while that at some time in the future might become a reality, how are we suppose to last until then? What are we building the infrastructure for, even that hasn't been determined yet. So you are saying that when we decide what that alternate fuel is going to be, and it's developed well enough to be affordable to the public, then we can begin creating all those jobs, so for the next 10 to 15 years, we just keep going downhill? Nice plan, but in my opinion, we need to do something now.
    All of the above. We need to upgrade and build a power grid capable of handling power from all sources of energy, solar, wind, nuclear. We need to upgrade our rail system. We need to innovate and compete with the Chinese in manufacturing solar and wind technologies. The longer we wait, the more we get behind competitively. Not to mention that we leave ourselves unprepared to deal with the end of cheap oil.

    I have never said that spending cuts were going to fix the problem, but just as you keep blaming the tax cuts for the last 30 years, just as much blame belongs on the excessive government spending over the same period of time. So yes “now” we are going to have to raise taxes as well as cut spending. Now everyone is going to have to take a hit, including the rich, middle class and the poor.
    The middle class and the poor have been taking a hit for the last 30 years. How you going to get blood from a turnip?


    Again in my opinion, you might as well face up to it, we are never again going to see taxes anywhere near that 70%.
    I don't expect them to be. I remind people of what real progressive taxes actually were, as they seem to think raising them back up now by 5% is some kind of socialist plot.

    Well the whole education thing is for another thread, as we now spend more per student (k-12) than anyone else in the world, and our results are dropping. The answer in Washington is the same as it always is, throw even more money at it.
    Close.....As a percentage of GDP we are #37 in education spending.
    Education spending (% of GDP) statistics - countries compared - NationMaster

    See this is why I have problems with liberal thinking, even at the rate of 1 in 7 being poor, that means that 85 percent of the population is receiving quality health care.
    It hasn't been just the poor people in quite some time. You need to read up on how the middle class has been having trouble affording healthcare as well. It is the leading cause of bankruptcy in the middle class.

    Well as I can say, is me, my bothers, and our friends have not been suffering in any of the ways you imply. In fact we had prospered in the last 30 years, been smart, invested wisely, didn't over extend ourselves with credit, and are now rising this storm out. It's something called personal responsibility, something that seems to be sorely lacking in this country.
    Must be good to be you. My concern is for those who are suffering.
    Last edited by Catawba; 03-18-11 at 04:55 PM.
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

  7. #457
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    Re: Unions threaten Business

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    OH...I get it...you and your thankyou buddy along with multiple other folk here DONT post regularly about 'rich' folk...and you and your little thank you buddy DIDNT bring up the evil rich people. That was me...right?
    I never called rich people "evil" nor did I collude with any "thankyou" buddy. Those are all distortions and hyperbole on your part. As I said, if you wish to handle this like an adult instead of using childish arguments and intellectual dishonesty, then there is something which can be debated. If not, then I have no interest in appeasing the temper tantrums of children and we'll just leave it at that.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

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    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

  8. #458
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    Re: Unions threaten Business

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    more stupidity. I was hired by the two top name partners at my first law job.

    not the HR department
    Since you brought it up and just for clarification... You're not a lawyer.

  9. #459
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    Re: Unions threaten Business

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    Close.....As a percentage of GDP we are #37 in education spending.
    Education spending (% of GDP) statistics - countries compared - NationMaster
    that's a useless measurement. what are we spending per child?

    The middle class and the poor have been taking a hit for the last 30 years. How you going to get blood from a turnip?
    remember when everyone was upset because the CBO posited that extending the Bush Tax cuts for the wealthy would increase the deficit by $800 Bn? they also pointed out that extending the Bush Tax cuts for the middle class would increase said deficit by $2.2 Trillion.
    Last edited by cpwill; 03-19-11 at 09:56 AM.

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    Re: Unions threaten Business

    Quote Originally Posted by hazlnut View Post
    Since you brought it up and just for clarification... You're not a lawyer.
    What does your un-needed clarification have to do with who hired him?

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