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Thread: Unions threaten Business

  1. #391
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    Re: Unions threaten Business

    Quote Originally Posted by William Rea View Post
    I'd rather Badmutha came back on the partisan graph posted but I think I understand it a little better thanks to you guys.

    The graph shows Gross debt and Public debt so I assume that the gap is Private debt which has clearly risen dramatically since deregulation commenced in the 1980s but I also speculate whether this debt might have risen sharply because Middle Class standards of living were being maintained by borrowing in the face of a squeeze on their actual income?
    Actually the gross and public debt

    Gross debt, total debt of the US federal government including that held by other government institutions, like Social Security. The few trillion dollars the US government owes to Social Security is held in that catagory. Which is why gross debt is at a higher level then the public debt. It also includes the value for the public debt

    Public debt, is the US federal government debt held by the public. The public in this case being individuals worldwide holding T Bills and the like. It also includes foreign governmnt holdings of US bonds, T Bill. The trillion or so US government bonds that China has is included as part of this catagory and the gross debt
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  2. #392
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    Re: Unions threaten Business

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    Congress is who established the temporary tax cuts.
    And it's already been well established that a great many of these people have never read, nor understand, the bills they vote for.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
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  3. #393
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    Re: Unions threaten Business

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    Because I don't have that high of regard for your opinion.
    I have even less regard for yours, but I can back mine up, and have.

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    Re: Unions threaten Business

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    Ha! A different source does not necessarily mean its the correct source. Its strictly your opinion that the NYT is more accurate than the Congressional Record.

    Its more likely to me the Congressional Record is correct at $93,000.

    Congressional Record - Google Books

    Which ever you go, the top tax class get more in tax breaks each year than a Wisconsin teacher's salary!!! We simply can't afford to keep providing those kind of tax cuts to those that need them least, while the middle class declines and our debt grows. As your own article points out:

    "Mr. Bush and his Republican allies in Congress want to permanently extend that tax cut and almost all of the others that Congress passed in his first term. The cost of doing that would be more than $1 trillion over the next decade, a cost that would hit the Treasury at the same time that the spending on old-age benefits for retiring baby boomers begins to soar."

    Where in the f**k are you living??? Bush hasn't been in office in over 2 years, congress has been controlled by Democrats for over 4 years. It was Obama and your liberals in the houses that passed the extension of tax cuts. Not Bush and Republicans.

    As for her source, the NY Times can hardly be called a conservative newspaper, it's widely known for it's liberalism. So if anything the I'd say the $58,000 was still a high end figure. Your 100 dollar figure is just pure nonsense.


    Details of the Bush 2003 Tax Cut Plan

    Under the Bush tax cut plan, 92 million taxpayers would receive, on average, a tax cut of $1,083 in 2003. Taxpayers in the lowest tax brackets would receive the largest percentage reduction in their taxes

    http://tax.cchgroup.com/news/taxbrief_01-08.pdf

    For 2003, the standard deduction for joint filers would increase from $7,950 to $9,500.
    The top dollar amount in the 15
    percent bracket would increase
    from $47,450 to $56,800. For
    coupl e s abov e the 15 pe rc ent
    bracket, that’s at least a 10 percentage point savings on this latter difference (25 percent bracket
    ov e r the 15 pe rc ent brac k e t ) ,
    which when combined with at
    least a 25 percent bracket savings on the increase in the standard d e d u c t i o n , e q u a l s a t l e a s t $1,322.50 in the pocket of marriedcouples filing joint returns.
    What the tax extension means for me | The Washington Post

    There is another one that shows the lowest earners (under $19,356) have gained $539.00 those making under $37493 see a $808.00 savings .

    Of course I understand that no amount of facts will change a closed mind, bet even a closed mind doesn't change the facts.

  5. #395
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    Re: Unions threaten Business

    [QUOTE=The Barbarian;1059355523]
    Where in the f**k are you living??? Bush hasn't been in office in over 2 years, congress has been controlled by Democrats for over 4 years. It was Obama and your liberals in the houses that passed the extension of tax cuts. Not Bush and Republicans.
    I live in the ****ing place where the GOP held the middle class tax cuts hostage for the tax cuts for the wealthy. The Democratic House passed a bill to end the continuation of the tax cuts to the rich. The GOP filibuster stopped it in the Senate. The tax cuts for the wealthy are again targeted in Obama's 2012 budget proposal.



    As for her source, the NY Times can hardly be called a conservative newspaper, it's widely known for it's liberalism. So if anything the I'd say the $58,000 was still a high end figure.
    Thanks for your opinion.

    Your 100 dollar figure is just pure nonsense.
    Its not my figure. It was the figure used by Congress when the tax cuts were being considered.


    Details of the Bush 2003 Tax Cut Plan

    Under the Bush tax cut plan, 92 million taxpayers would receive, on average, a tax cut of $1,083 in 2003. Taxpayers in the lowest tax brackets would receive the largest percentage reduction in their taxes
    Even if this source is correct, that's still 1% of the tax cut received on average from those making more than $1 million dollars.

    And that doesn't even include the tax cuts enjoyed by the rich under the Reagan tax cuts for the last 30 years.
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

  6. #396
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    Re: Unions threaten Business

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    I live in the ****ing place where the GOP held the middle class tax cuts hostage for the tax cuts for the wealthy. The Democratic House passed a bill to end the continuation of the tax cuts to the rich. The GOP filibuster stopped it in the Senate. The tax cuts for the wealthy are again targeted in Obama's 2012 budget proposal.
    Hey hey hey! Quit pointing out reality! Besides, the rich are special. They..umm...pay taxes (now let's not go into the uber rich who pay lower marginal tax rates than their employees) and they totally give to charities; something no other class in America does...EVER. And they supply us with jobs because they aren't moving production overseas and without those rich we could never have jobs because in America there are not droves of people waiting in the wings to take over who could do a better job. None in the least. Leave the rich alone!
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

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    Re: Unions threaten Business

    [QUOTE]=Catawba;1059355601]
    Quote Originally Posted by The Barbarian View Post

    I live in the ****ing place where the GOP held the middle class tax cuts hostage for the tax cuts for the wealthy. The Democratic House passed a bill to end the continuation of the tax cuts to the rich. The GOP filibuster stopped it in the Senate. The tax cuts for the wealthy are again targeted in Obama's 2012 budget proposal.
    Thats just a bunch of bullchit …. nothing had to pass … nothing .. and the republicans sure weren't in any position to pass anything, and still aren't .. . Now according to you seeing it was only a $100 tax increase to everyone but the rich, why the hell didn't they just do nothing .. let the cuts expire.... no matter how hard you try, you can't put this back on the Republicans or Bush.

    Thanks for your opinion.
    It's hardly my opinion, just ask your liberal friends .. even they will tell you the NY Times is a liberal leaning newspaper. But like I say don't let facts get in the way.



    Its not my figure. It was the figure used by Congress when the tax cuts were being considered.
    Well it's wrong, what else can I say.

    Even if this source is correct, that's still 1% of the tax cut received on average from those making more than $1 million dollars.

    And that doesn't even include the tax cuts enjoyed by the rich under the Reagan tax cuts for the last 30 years.
    We can play the numbers game all day, the simple truth is... the lower classes got the “biggest” percentage of tax cuts in Bush's tax cuts, and that is the only reason that it wasn't allowed to expire.

    As for Reagan, well I'll never, ever agree that anyone regardless of their income should fork over 70% to the government. When you have to work 255 days out of 365 just to pay the government, it's not worth living here. There is no country in the world that has such a tax rate.

  8. #398
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    Re: Unions threaten Business

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    Hey hey hey! Quit pointing out reality! Besides, the rich are special. They..umm...pay taxes (now let's not go into the uber rich who pay lower marginal tax rates than their employees) and they totally give to charities; something no other class in America does...EVER. And they supply us with jobs because they aren't moving production overseas and without those rich we could never have jobs because in America there are not droves of people waiting in the wings to take over who could do a better job. None in the least. Leave the rich alone!
    Penis envy is such a sad sad thing and really not becoming of you. Be grateful for what little you have.

    Why should 'the rich' be taxed more when congress has consistently proven it cant be trusted to spend what it has? Why should the only segment of society that has demonstrated the ability to succeed continue to be punished to pay for the limp dicks that continue to prove they cant (or wont)? Why should the rich continue to be tasked to pay for all the pathetic crippled dependent pets in society? And why should they continue to carry the burden of a government that has spent the country into a 14 trillion dollar hole?

    IF (as if it will ever happen) the fed ever demonstrates MANDATED fiscal responsibility and a MANDATED plan to pay down the debt, than i would be all for higher taxes to pay down the debt. But as long as MO taxes just means MO MONEY for politicians to spend...not just no but hell no. And all the whiny little ****s that keep complaining about the evil rich people MIGHT be better serve to look at THEMSELVES as the source of their massive failings.

  9. #399
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    Re: Unions threaten Business

    Quote Originally Posted by The Barbarian View Post
    We can play the numbers game all day, the simple truth is... the lower classes got the “biggest” percentage of tax cuts in Bush's tax cuts, and that is the only reason that it wasn't allowed to expire.

    As for Reagan, well I'll never, ever agree that anyone regardless of their income should fork over 70% to the government. When you have to work 255 days out of 365 just to pay the government, it's not worth living here. There is no country in the world that has such a tax rate.
    There is no benefit to the country for rich people taking their tax savings and investing it in tax free accounts overseas. It just makes it harder on the middle class and increases our national debt. We have 30 years of experience that shows that Reaganomics (trickle down theory) never worked. The rich get richer and more and more of he middle class are turned into the poor.
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

  10. #400
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    Re: Unions threaten Business

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    Penis envy is such a sad sad thing and really not becoming of you. Be grateful for what little you have.

    Why should 'the rich' be taxed more when congress has consistently proven it cant be trusted to spend what it has? Why should the only segment of society that has demonstrated the ability to succeed continue to be punished to pay for the limp dicks that continue to prove they cant (or wont)? Why should the rich continue to be tasked to pay for all the pathetic crippled dependent pets in society? And why should they continue to carry the burden of a government that has spent the country into a 14 trillion dollar hole?

    IF (as if it will ever happen) the fed ever demonstrates MANDATED fiscal responsibility and a MANDATED plan to pay down the debt, than i would be all for higher taxes to pay down the debt. But as long as MO taxes just means MO MONEY for politicians to spend...not just no but hell no. And all the whiny little ****s that keep complaining about the evil rich people MIGHT be better serve to look at THEMSELVES as the source of their massive failings.
    They should be taxed equally. The rules are not set up that way, however. Nor did I call the evil rich. I said they are not special. They're the same as us all. Yet they can get the government to set up specialized tax brackets and breaks to reduce their marginal tax rate to be below the rest of ours. Why should they pay less in taxes? Being rich doesn't make one special, it merely makes them rich.

    But continue with your penis jokes because it's doing wonders for your argument.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

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