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Thread: Unions threaten Business

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    Re: Unions threaten Business

    Quote Originally Posted by megaprogman View Post
    Its simply an economic decision and nothing more.
    All forms of extortion are economic decisions.

    Yes, Mayor Snorkum isn't afraid of the "ex" word.

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    Re: Unions threaten Business

    Quote Originally Posted by Mayor Snorkum View Post
    So, you've never studied history and the rise of unionism in the United States by use of violence, extortion, coercion, and graft?

    Maybe you should stop posting until you've learned history?
    I have studied enough history to know not to selectively take pieces of it to promote my own agenda.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mayor Snorkum View Post
    All forms of extortion are economic decisions.

    Yes, Mayor Snorkum isn't afraid of the "ex" word.
    I see, and a Christian or Mormon group not buying from a business due to a moral concern is extortion then, by your logic.
    Last edited by tacomancer; 03-12-11 at 03:30 PM.

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    Re: Unions threaten Business

    Quote Originally Posted by megaprogman View Post
    I have studied enough history to know not to selectively take pieces of it to promote my own agenda.
    But you're willing to completely ignore it to promote your agenda.

    That's good to know.

    I see, and a Christian or Mormon group not buying from a business due to a moral concern is extortion then, by your logic.
    No, it looks like you're describing economic extortion.

    However....what services are Christian groups providing as part of their position as a government agency that can threaten their boycott targets on higher levels, as can union actions by police and firemen?

    That's the difference you want to pretend doesn't exist, but that's all the difference in the world between your example and what the public employees unions are threatening.


    One last thing. The UAW and other car-related unions are producing products for which alternative sources are available. There is no alternative to local police, nor is there usually alternative to the local fire department. Thus the comparison with Government Motors is invalid.

    Now, I'm going to go dig deep holes in my backyard looking for leaky pipes around my pool, so don't read anything into my failure to respond. It's going to be fun for about ten minutes, and not so much so for the rest of the afternoon...
    Last edited by Mayor Snorkum; 03-12-11 at 03:42 PM.

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    Re: Unions threaten Business

    The right wing freak show is pushing a recent letter, excerpted below, which identifies the history of collective bargaining in five decades of peaceful labor relations and that Scott Walker did not run on highly constraining collective bargaining in his gubernatorial campaign and then goes on to say:

    … In the event that you cannot support this effort to save collective bargaining, please be advised that the undersigned will publicly and formally boycott the goods and services provided by your company. However, if you join us, we will do everything in our power to publicly celebrate your partnership in the fight to preserve the right of public employees to be heard at the bargaining table. Wisconsin’s public employee unions serve to protect and promote equality and fairness in the workplace. We hope you will stand with us and publicly share that ideal. …

    — letter, from executive Director of the Wisconsin Professional Police Association to Tom Ellis, President, Marshall & Ilsley Corporation¹

    The right wing freak show residents would have us believe this is a kind of extortion. Personally, this letter is a valid form of direct political action. There's nothing wrong with withholding your patronage for businesses whose politics are contrary to your own. Conservative groups and liberal groups and groups in between all use economic boycotts to express their displeasure with a business or public entity.
    “Real environmentalists live in cities, and they visit what's left of the wilderness as gently and respectfully as possible.” — Donna Moulton, letter to the editor, Tucson Weekly, published on August 23, 2001

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    Re: Unions threaten Business

    Quote Originally Posted by megaprogman View Post
    I have studied enough history to know not to selectively take pieces of it to promote my own agenda.
    History also has a tendency to repeat itself. As such you should not discount those pieces. Which is why most people use selective pieces of history, to show that it's been done multiple times before and can happen again.

    Also I think people in this thread that are defending the Unions on this stance of thiers are ignoring what a boycott from a Union usually implies. It does not simply imply just not buying items from X store. It also usually involves picket lines and people with signs infront of X store. That was the normal way that Unions boycotted a buisness back in the day.

    Now with all this said:

    Yes Unions and everyone else in the US has a right to do this. No one is saying that they do not have this right. What people are saying is that by writing such a letter they are threatening X buisness for not supporting them. THAT is what people are seeing as bad. A picket line and boycott is nothing more than a different name for a protest. But if someone came up to you and told you that you had better do X or Y will happen wouldn't YOU see that as a threat? As that person trying to extort you? Just because they have a right to do something, doesn't mean that the way they go about doing it is the right way to do it.
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    Re: Unions threaten Business

    Quote Originally Posted by Mayor Snorkum View Post
    But you're willing to completely ignore it to promote your agenda.

    That's good to know.
    Ahh yes, the classic retort of "you have an agenda" when one cannot come up with a good counter argument.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mayor Snorkum View Post
    No, it looks like you're describing economic extortion.
    If if you are thinking that not purchasing from someone is extortion because you don't like them or their views, you should read about capitalism, but this is a very capitalistic response and secondly, there is nothing illegal or unethical about not purchasing from someone for those reasons, which invalidates the idea that it can even be thought of as extortion.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mayor Snorkum View Post
    However....what services are Christian groups providing as part of their position as a government agency that can threaten their boycott targets on higher levels, as can union actions by police and firemen?
    Whether or not they are a government agency is not relevent, they are a group of people making personal economic decisions.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mayor Snorkum View Post
    That's the difference you want to pretend doesn't exist, but that's all the difference in the world between your example and what the public employees unions are threatening.
    Nope. You might have a point of the police force didn't buy guns from smith&wesson due to union concerns, but if johnny the cop goes to this store vs that store to buy his weekly groceries, it has nothing to do with government.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kal'Stang View Post
    History also has a tendency to repeat itself. As such you should not discount those pieces. Which is why most people use selective pieces of history, to show that it's been done multiple times before and can happen again.
    The point being that I didn't want to get into a historical argument because for every point that can be brought up, a counterpoint can be brought up, ultimately going nowhere and wasting my time.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kal'Stang View Post
    Also I think people in this thread that are defending the Unions on this stance of thiers are ignoring what a boycott from a Union usually implies. It does not simply imply just not buying items from X store. It also usually involves picket lines and people with signs infront of X store. That was the normal way that Unions boycotted a buisness back in the day.

    Now with all this said:

    Yes Unions and everyone else in the US has a right to do this. No one is saying that they do not have this right. What people are saying is that by writing such a letter they are threatening X buisness for not supporting them. THAT is what people are seeing as bad. A picket line and boycott is nothing more than a different name for a protest. But if someone came up to you and told you that you had better do X or Y will happen wouldn't YOU see that as a threat? As that person trying to extort you? Just because they have a right to do something, doesn't mean that the way they go about doing it is the right way to do it.
    And, IF this happens, and all laws and permitting procedures are followed, there is nothing wrong or illegal. The supreme court just ruled in favor of WBC for picketing soldier funerals. If those scumbags have first amendment rights, everyone else does too. But whether it is a threat or not is unimportant, because people have a right to purchase from who they choose. It is not unfair or wrong to want a business to conform to your personal moral standards, it is an inherent part of capitalism that so many people on this forum champion.
    Last edited by tacomancer; 03-12-11 at 03:49 PM.

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    Re: Unions threaten Business

    Quote Originally Posted by Chappy View Post
    The right wing freak show residents would have us believe this is a kind of extortion. Personally, this letter is a valid form of direct political action. There's nothing wrong with withholding your patronage for businesses whose politics are contrary to your own. Conservative groups and liberal groups and groups in between all use economic boycotts to express their displeasure with a business or public entity.
    So, what would you say if a President of the US told you not to buy X TV brand because he doesn't like the shape of the TV, if you do buy it however then he would withhold all services that he provides to you?
    I have an answer for everything...you may not like the answer or it may not satisfy your curiosity..but it will still be an answer. ~ Kal'Stang

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    Re: Unions threaten Business

    Quote Originally Posted by megaprogman View Post
    I see, and a Christian or Mormon group not buying from a business due to a moral concern is extortion then, by your logic.
    Do your tax dollars fund any Christian or Mormon groups?


    Buy American--Unless they are Non-Democrat Americans.
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    Re: Unions threaten Business

    Quote Originally Posted by Badmutha View Post
    Do your tax dollars fund any Christian or Mormon groups?


    Buy American--Unless they are Non-Democrat Americans.
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    In some cases, yes they do. What's your point?

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    Re: Unions threaten Business

    Quote Originally Posted by megaprogman View Post
    It is everyone's fundamental right as it is their right not not buy from you (assuming you are a business owner) if they don't like you or for any arbitrary reason they see fit, even silly stuff like not liking the color of your shoes. Political differences are no more or less meaningful in that respect.

    This whole notion of being harrassed, because you did not receive a purchase, is silly for that reason.

    Those people who are freaking out about this are reading way more into it then is there. Its simply an economic decision and nothing more.
    Yessir and it's my right not to choose sides in a political pissin' contest and to be free from harrassment by a labor union, with millions of dollars at it's disposal in which to beat up on me and force me to choose a side.

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