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Unions threaten Business

haymarket said:
Its always Obama with you ins't it?

Google Answers: Budget and Employment Stats for the state of Michigan

Seems you boy Engler left the state with nearly $4 billion in deficits over his last three budget.
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So you are saying he violated the Michigan Constitution? I never lived in Michigan and was in TX when he was Governor of Michigan but grew up in Ohio and Indiana spending a lot of time in Michigan. You will never convince me that throwing more money at social problems actually solve social problems nor will you convince me that allowing taxpayers to keep more of what they earn is harmful to the state. As with the nation people with more of their money spend a lot more of it on charities thus getting better results. Charities are a better answer than govt. spending.
 
Conservative said:
And obviously I am not? You and I have absolutely nothing in common and if what you say is true then you are indeed a pawn of the radical left. Nothing the radical left stands for is based upon the foundation upon which this country was built, individual responsibility and individual wealth creation. You and your ilk never accept personal responsibility and rely on dependence for you livlihood. It is always someone else's responsiblity for your own failures. I will put my 64 years up against your entire lifetime any day both personally and professionally.
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Again, ridiculuosly reductionist.

America = me first f*** all y'all just doesn't seem to be what I was taught.

And "hey! leave a little pie for the rest of us" is not the same as "everyone gets the same amount of pie no matter how much or how little they contributed to the baking of said pie", that's just silly, but you can't conceive of there being some reasonable balance between the two extremes, both of which suck.

I don't think anyone on the left actually supports the position you attribute to them.

I think many on the right do support unchecked greed and the false "survival of the fittest" model.

Seems that way, anyway.
 
What if...? said:
Again, ridiculuosly reductionist.

America = me first f*** all y'all just doesn't seem to be what I was taught.

And "hey! leave a little pie for the rest of us" is not the same as "everyone gets the same amount of pie no matter how much or how little they contributed to the baking of said pie", that's just silly, but you can't conceive of there being some reasonable balance between the two extremes, both of which suck.

I don't think anyone on the left actually supports the position you attribute to them.

I think many on the right do support unchecked greed and the false "survival of the fittest" model.

Seems that way, anyway.
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Right, enjoy that liberal utopia that our President is trying to create. Only in the liberal world does the pie not get bigger with private sector growth. We have laws that protect the consumer, don't need a bigger govt. that failed in the first place.
 
pbrauer said:
I would bet his rich buddies are much better off.
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Looks like quite a surplus from 1992-2001 but of course that escaped you and the fact is 32 million in tax cuts went back to the people even with those surpluses. Love how liberals never saw a tax dollar and hike that they didn't love. After all according to a lot of liberals, the people aren't smart enough to spend their own money the right way so they need to send it to the govt. so they can pay high adminisrative costs and spend the rest in the right way.
 
Conservative said:
Wow, there you go again, focused on revenue, but never spending. Has a liberal ever seen a social program that deserves cuts? Spending causes debt not lost revenue. If you had lost revenue would you continue to spend? You are so predictable, keep spending in the name of compassion while never getting compassionate results. Keep attacking people and business keeping more of their own money.
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If you have known expenses, would you cut revenue? Would you intentionally sell fewer widgets than would cover your nut?

Taxes are about all the revenue a govt has.

And I still haven't seen the joyous benefits of tax cuts on the economy as a whole after ten whole years of their being in place.

Cut taxes. Scream about deficit this causes. Cut programs that allowed middle class to flourish. use dividend to further cut taxes.

Repeat until peasantry reestablished.
 
Conservative said:
Right, enjoy that liberal utopia that our President is trying to create. Only in the liberal world does the pie not get bigger with private sector growth. We have laws that protect the consumer, don't need a bigger govt. that failed in the first place.
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The pie may be increasing in size but those sharing it are growing faster that should mean that every one should be seeing a slightly smaller piece unfortunately that is not the case, the number of poor in this country is increasing while some are getting a larger portion of the pie

Income Gap Widens: Census Finds Record Gap Between Rich And Poor

In dollar terms, the rich are still getting richer, and the poor are falling further behind them.

The income gap between the richest and poorest Americans grew last year to its largest margin ever, a stark divide as Democrats and Republicans spar over whether to extend Bush-era tax cuts for the wealthy.

The top-earning 20 percent of Americans – those making more than $100,000 each year – received 49.4 percent of all income generated in the U.S., compared with the 3.4 percent made by the bottom 20 percent of earners, those who fell below the poverty line, according to the new figures. That ratio of 14.5-to-1 was an increase from 13.6 in 2008 and nearly double a low of 7.69 in 1968.

At the top, the wealthiest 5 percent of Americans, who earn more than $180,000, added slightly to their annual incomes last year, the data show. Families at the $50,000 median level slipped lower.

What can be envisioned is our people engaged in civil war just like what is going on in the middle east, look at the number of people who will be living at or below the poverty level and then the number of people that will make up the rest of our population and decide which group you would rather find you and yours in.
 
What if...? said:
If you have known expenses, would you cut revenue? Would you intentionally sell fewer widgets than would cover your nut?

Taxes are about all the revenue a govt has.

And I still haven't seen the joyous benefits of tax cuts on the economy as a whole after ten whole years of their being in place.

Cut taxes. Scream about deficit this causes. Cut programs that allowed middle class to flourish. use dividend to further cut taxes.

Repeat until peasantry reestablished.
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God forbid we ever get back to the vision our Founders had for the role of the govt. which is laid out in the Preamble to the Constitution. Tax cuts that create jobs and grow revenue do not cause deficits, spending always causes deficits. Here are the line items in the budget, how many are duplicated at the state level and really can be cut?

For some reason liberals have this obsession with a large central govt. that is bloated and full of bureaucracy.

Expenses

Defense
International Affairs
Gen. Science, Space
Energy
Natural resources/env
Agriculture
Commerce
Transportation
Community Dev
Education/Train/Social
Health
Medicare
Income Security
Social Security
Veterans Benefits
Justice
General Govt.
Net Interest
 
EarlzP said:
Earning is one thing stealing is another, the money that the banking and mortgage companies made from the housing bubble was stealing, the money wall street brokers made is stealing.
Since it appears that business owners have no incentive to return to America maybe the government should get involved in the creation of wealth more openly, you know instead of creating wars to ensure the flow of oil to American corporations we could form government corporations to handle the oil from the ground to the pump that way we could lessen the impact on the consumer by controlling prices and put the profits back into the government for research and development of alternate energy sources
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Whoaah serious heresy! Better get your shiny suit ready!
 
EarlzP said:
The pie may be increasing in size but those sharing it are growing faster that should mean that every one should be seeing a slightly smaller piece unfortunately that is not the case, the number of poor in this country is increasing while some are getting a larger portion of the pie

Income Gap Widens: Census Finds Record Gap Between Rich And Poor

In dollar terms, the rich are still getting richer, and the poor are falling further behind them.

The income gap between the richest and poorest Americans grew last year to its largest margin ever, a stark divide as Democrats and Republicans spar over whether to extend Bush-era tax cuts for the wealthy.

The top-earning 20 percent of Americans – those making more than $100,000 each year – received 49.4 percent of all income generated in the U.S., compared with the 3.4 percent made by the bottom 20 percent of earners, those who fell below the poverty line, according to the new figures. That ratio of 14.5-to-1 was an increase from 13.6 in 2008 and nearly double a low of 7.69 in 1968.

At the top, the wealthiest 5 percent of Americans, who earn more than $180,000, added slightly to their annual incomes last year, the data show. Families at the $50,000 median level slipped lower.

What can be envisioned is our people engaged in civil war just like what is going on in the middle east, look at the number of people who will be living at or below the poverty level and then the number of people that will make up the rest of our population and decide which group you would rather find you and yours in.
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So you think it is the govt. role to make people have more initiative, drive, and put more effort into creating their own personal wealth? Good luck with that. Why is it that you and others always know exactly what keeps people down and why they aren't successful? Name for me one rich person that kept you from being successful? I don't give a damn how much someone else makes, good for them. No rich person ever kept me from producing good results for myself and my family but many did indeed provide an example for me to follow to become wealthy in so many different ways.
 
Conservative said:
Right, enjoy that liberal utopia that our President is trying to create. Only in the liberal world does the pie not get bigger with private sector growth. We have laws that protect the consumer, don't need a bigger govt. that failed in the first place.
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Just cuz the pies bigger doesn't mean that any more people get pie. False analogy.

Again, reducto ad absurdum. Reduced to the silly.

And here's one that'll hurt your brain. I agree with you to some extent. Because my brain is reasonable and flexible.

I can believe in the color gray.

I swear the truth is somewhere in the yummy middle!
 
Conservative said:
Looks like quite a surplus from 1992-2001 but of course that escaped you and the fact is 32 million in tax cuts went back to the people even with those surpluses. Love how liberals never saw a tax dollar and hike that they didn't love. After all according to a lot of liberals, the people aren't smart enough to spend their own money the right way so they need to send it to the govt. so they can pay high adminisrative costs and spend the rest in the right way.
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Ah , now you have hurt feelings that your pin up boy Johnnie has been taken down a few pegs and ran an irresponsible administration with billions and billions in deficit and left the state in a financial straight jacket unable to get out of it.

You will get over it and soon. Just think of all the vitriol you have for our current President and Johnnie boy will be a distant memory along with his $4 billion deficits.
 
haymarket said:
Thanks Dude. Two more great reasons why Bush sucks.
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find me a legal scholar who claims that sham wow's two quota picks are brighter and more qualified than Roberts and Alito.

Roberts was widely considered one of the top people to ever graduate from HLS and was widely ranked as the TOP Supreme Court advocate in the country. Alito was a top drawer US Attorney, Asst US attorney and then Circuit Judge.

Remind me of Kagan's resume. How many cases did she actually try? how about her judicial experience?

Oh yeah she had NONE.

but she is a leftwing dem hack which overcomes Roberts' and Alito's resumes in your book
 
haymarket said:
Ah , now you have hurt feelings that your pin up boy Johnnie has been taken down a few pegs and ran an irresponsible administration with billions and billions in deficit and left the state in a financial straight jacket unable to get out of it.

You will get over it and soon. Just think of all the vitriol you have for our current President and Johnnie boy will be a distant memory along with his $4 billion deficits.
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I believe if you add up the surpluses up to the last three years you will find that the surpluses far exceeded the deficits but that doesn't stop you from spending more money and wanting to keep more taxdollars for your social engineering. Your state is a disaster and it is all due to unions and liberal social engineering.
 
Conservative said:
What did the taxpayers do with that extra money? If they spent it, it got into the state coffers in sales tax revenue or corporate/business tax revenue. It also created 800000 jobs that didn't require unemployment benefits and generated more tax revenue for the state. Liberals don't seem to understand that concept.

It does say a lot about you when you are more worried about the state getting revenue vs. the taxpayers keeping what they earned. Guess I can understand that since you work for the taxpayers and need that paycheck.
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$32 billion worth of sales taxes wage taxes, saved unemployment.? Maybe, maybe not.

And it sounds like he did some spending too, with all those corridors and courts.

Final balance?
 
TurtleDude said:
find me a legal scholar who claims that sham wow's two quota picks are brighter and more qualified than Roberts and Alito.

Roberts was widely considered one of the top people to ever graduate from HLS and was widely ranked as the TOP Supreme Court advocate in the country. Alito was a top drawer US Attorney, Asst US attorney and then Circuit Judge.

Remind me of Kagan's resume. How many cases did she actually try? how about her judicial experience?

Oh yeah she had NONE.

but she is a leftwing dem hack which overcomes Roberts' and Alito's resumes in your book
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Its the decisions dude... its the decisions. I could not care less about grading the recipe if the food on the table looks and smells like crap. And that describes Alito and Roberts perfectly.
 
haymarket said:
Its the decisions dude... its the decisions. I could not care less about grading the recipe if the food on the table looks and smells like crap. And that describes Alito and Roberts perfectly.
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yeah I forgot you have the legal training to really analyze the decisions. Did you ever figure out how silly Breyer's dissent was in HELLER? He believes that a right should change based on the political environment of different parts of America.

using his logic, the police in a high crime neighborhood would not have to read miranda rights to a mope while those in a low crime area might have to.
 
haymarket said:
Its the decisions dude... its the decisions. I could not care less about grading the recipe if the food on the table looks and smells like crap. And that describes Alito and Roberts perfectly.
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translation-decisions that left wing dem hacks don't like make the Justices bad-decisions that left wing dem hacks like make the justices "good"
 
What if...? said:
$32 billion worth of sales taxes wage taxes, saved unemployment.? Maybe, maybe not.

And it sounds like he did some spending too, with all those corridors and courts.

Final balance?
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I believe the number was millions according to Haymarket but who knows. What I do know is that Michigan required a balanced budget and if so then what right does the state have to the taxpayer surpluses?
 
haymarket said:
And you offer no proof of that at all.
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LOL, yeah, right, Detroit is a model city, the auto industry is in shambles, you have 10.4% unemployment and continue to lose population each year. That is a liberal success story.
 
TurtleDude said:
yeah I forgot you have the legal training to really analyze the decisions. Did you ever figure out how silly Breyer's dissent was in HELLER? He believes that a right should change based on the political environment of different parts of America.

using his logic, the police in a high crime neighborhood would not have to read miranda rights to a mope while those in a low crime area might have to.
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Wait a minute here. You are the same guy in the TAXATION thread who keeps maintaining that there is a tax on death when you have failed for weeks to find anything in the actual law to support you despite being challenged time and time and time again. You are the same guy who ignores the actual language in the federal statute. You are the same guy who ignores the language from his own state government on the estate tax. I have asked you over and over and over again this same question

Can you show us where in the law, it is the act of DEATH that is taxed independent and apart from any transfer of wealth to another person?

Should be easy for somebody who claims to be a fancy Ivy League educated hot shot attorney. But you have stayed away from it like a vampire from a garlic salesman at high noon.


When you finally cash that check that your mouth has already written and back it up with solid legal evidence, come on back to discuss the law. Until that time your credibility - what ever there may have been of it - is gone with the wind on legal matters.
 
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Conservative said:
LOL, yeah, right, Detroit is a model city, the auto industry is in shambles, you have 10.4% unemployment and continue to lose population each year. That is a liberal success story.
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Again, you post things that do not even come within a mile of what you were actually challenged to do. But what else is new? Oh yeah, the sun rises in the east tomorrow.

this was your boast

Your state is a disaster and it is all due to unions and liberal social engineering.
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now prove that.
 
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haymarket said:
Wait a minute here. You are the same guy in the TAXATION thread who keeps maintaining that there is a tax on death when you have failed for weeks to find anything in the actual law to support you despite being challenged time and time and time again. You are the same guy who ignores the actual language in the federal statute. You are the same guy who ignores the language from his own state government on the estate tax. When you finally cash that check that your mouth has already written and back it up with solid legal evidence, come on back to discuss the law. Until that time your credibility - what ever there may have been of it - is gone with the wind on legal matters.
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remind me of how many cases you have argued to federal appellate courts.

We know how you operate-you already admitted to being a paid dem hack. we get your position-if it helps the dems its good, if it helps America its bad
 
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