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Thread: Unions threaten Business

  1. #171
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    Re: Unions threaten Business

    Quote Originally Posted by randel View Post
    as for the 'sympathetic parties'...i really don't think that holds water, as the majority of the electorate didnt belong to this union, and they voted in those who represent them...why not vote them out if the electorate thought that they had been giving away the house all these years?
    What do you think just happened on Nov. 2, 2010--The Largest Political Ass Whooping in history?



    We The People spoke......and instead of abiding by the Will of the People......Democrat Lawmakers fled to ****cago in an effort to stop the People's will.
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    .

  2. #172
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    Re: Unions threaten Business

    Quote Originally Posted by Badmutha View Post
    What do you think just happened on Nov. 2, 2010--The Largest Political Ass Whooping in history?



    We The People spoke......and instead of abiding by the Will of the People......Democrat Lawmakers fled to ****cago in an effort to stop the People's will.
    .
    .
    .
    this last election really wasnt about taxes...it was more frustration with how the economy was, and that it wasnt improving as fast as people liked...takes more than 2 years to fix the disaster obama walked into ...especially when it was quite a few years in the making.

  3. #173
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    Re: Unions threaten Business

    Quote Originally Posted by randel View Post
    the whole recertification thing is none of his business, as i stated, that is an internal union issue.
    Not any more. If the unions had been interested in negotiating this, they probably could have encouraged the dem 14 to really engage. I have a feeling (just a guess) that the unions were encouraging the dem 14 to stay away and prolong the exercise as long as possible for the previously mentioned reasons.

    Quote Originally Posted by randel View Post
    what i don't get, is the state budget, he was looking to save 30 mill immediately, which he would have gotten, and something like 300 mill over 3 years...the budget deficit was what? 3 billion...this fight got him less than 10 percent of his shortfall...what about the rest of the deficit?
    As I stated, the bill that was passed is gong to save the distrcits/states a lot of money over a long period of time. You won't see this savings refelected in any estimate - because how do you really estimate savings on hypothetical expenses, but the savings will be real. I never saw final projections once the governor's full budget proposal is passed. Did you? I know a lot of budget cuts are coming - and this bill will make it a lot easier for the districts to deal with these cuts (another reason it was needed). But, do you know what the final tally was? After all of the cuts, what is the expected deficit?

    if you are really broke, and looking to make cuts, why was he giving tax breaks to those who supported him? i maintain that this was nothing but union busting...by the way, i am enjoying the conversation with you buck. we may not agree, but i like the civility.
    Are you talking about police and fire unions? You would have a hella hard time to make me believe that exempting them was political payback. Out of the 300 some police and FF unions in WI only 4 endorsed Walker. The 4 that endorsed Walker were not even the biggest in the state. I believe the reason they were exempted was due to police and FF being very sympathetic characters. Basically, he thought that if they were included, the backlash and rejection of his plan would be a lot larger. It's likely that is true - but we'll never know for certain.

    And, as you know, we are simply going to have a disagreement over wether tax cuts to buseinss end up paying for themselves or not. I am not too interested in getting involved in that again. However, as someone that lives in IL, right over the border from WI, I can tell you I do know of one business that has alrady left for WI (due to Quinn's tax increases) and another business that has plans on moving. This is outside of some of the stories I have read of in the local papers. I realize this is anectdotal, so make of it what you will. However, I have personally seen evidence of the tax cuts having the affect intended.

  4. #174
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    Re: Unions threaten Business

    Quote Originally Posted by randel View Post
    as for the 'sympathetic parties'...i really don't think that holds water, as the majority of the electorate didnt belong to this union, and they voted in those who represent them...why not vote them out if the electorate thought that they had been giving away the house all these years?
    Alot of times the union is negotiating against former teachers. Teachers that are sympathetic to the position of the current teachers. Also, the cost to taxpayers is hidden. If every tax payer had to write a check every year that had to be paid to the local school district, I think this would be much more obvious and probably would have sparked more outrage. It's similar to, what i think, is some of the reasoning in requiring teachers to begin writing their own union dues checks. The teachers are now gong to see exactly how much of their salary will be going towards the union. Think this will cause some pause when they have to write out a $1,000.00+ check to the union?

  5. #175
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    Re: Unions threaten Business

    Quote Originally Posted by buck View Post
    Not any more. If the unions had been interested in negotiating this, they probably could have encouraged the dem 14 to really engage. I have a feeling (just a guess) that the unions were encouraging the dem 14 to stay away and prolong the exercise as long as possible for the previously mentioned reasons.



    As I stated, the bill that was passed is gong to save the distrcits/states a lot of money over a long period of time. You won't see this savings refelected in any estimate - because how do you really estimate savings on hypothetical expenses, but the savings will be real. I never saw final projections once the governor's full budget proposal is passed. Did you? I know a lot of budget cuts are coming - and this bill will make it a lot easier for the districts to deal with these cuts (another reason it was needed). But, do you know what the final tally was? After all of the cuts, what is the expected deficit?



    Are you talking about police and fire unions? You would have a hella hard time to make me believe that exempting them was political payback. Out of the 300 some police and FF unions in WI only 4 endorsed Walker. The 4 that endorsed Walker were not even the biggest in the state. I believe the reason they were exempted was due to police and FF being very sympathetic characters. Basically, he thought that if they were included, the backlash and rejection of his plan would be a lot larger. It's likely that is true - but we'll never know for certain.

    And, as you know, we are simply going to have a disagreement over wether tax cuts to buseinss end up paying for themselves or not. I am not too interested in getting involved in that again. However, as someone that lives in IL, right over the border from WI, I can tell you I do know of one business that has alrady left for WI (due to Quinn's tax increases) and another business that has plans on moving. This is outside of some of the stories I have read of in the local papers. I realize this is anectdotal, so make of it what you will. However, I have personally seen evidence of the tax cuts having the affect intended.
    i don't think walker had any intention whether the democrats stayed or not...as for the firefighters and police, you may have point, he also may not have wanted to piss away what little support he did have from unions.

  6. #176
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    Re: Unions threaten Business

    Quote Originally Posted by randel View Post
    this last election really wasnt about taxes...it was more frustration with how the economy was, and that it wasnt improving as fast as people liked...takes more than 2 years to fix the disaster obama walked into ...especially when it was quite a few years in the making.
    I always enjoy when the Losing Side tells us what the election was and wasnt about.......

    .....tell the Tea Party it wasnt about Taxes.....

    But if you insist it was soley about the economy.....

    Unemployment Rate Since Obama became President


    Unemployment Rate Since Democrats took over Congress


    .....then there wont be a Democrat left in Washington after 2012.

    .
    .
    .

  7. #177
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    Re: Unions threaten Business

    Quote Originally Posted by buck View Post
    Alot of times the union is negotiating against former teachers. Teachers that are sympathetic to the position of the current teachers. Also, the cost to taxpayers is hidden. If every tax payer had to write a check every year that had to be paid to the local school district, I think this would be much more obvious and probably would have sparked more outrage. It's similar to, what i think, is some of the reasoning in requiring teachers to begin writing their own union dues checks. The teachers are now gong to see exactly how much of their salary will be going towards the union. Think this will cause some pause when they have to write out a $1,000.00+ check to the union?
    the teachers would see once a month how much their dues were...with me, it is 2 hours of straight time pay.

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    Re: Unions threaten Business

    Quote Originally Posted by Badmutha View Post
    I always enjoy when the Losing Side tells us what the election was and wasnt about.......

    .....tell the Tea Party it wasnt about Taxes.....

    But if you insist it was soley about the economy.....

    Unemployment Rate Since Obama became President


    Unemployment Rate Since Democrats took over Congress


    .....then there wont be a Democrat left in Washington after 2012.

    .
    .
    .
    you are sorely mistaken

  9. #179
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    Re: Unions threaten Business

    Quote Originally Posted by randel View Post
    i don't think walker had any intention whether the democrats stayed or not...as for the firefighters and police, you may have point, he also may not have wanted to piss away what little support he did have from unions.
    Well, we have emails that show otherwise. Walker had conceeded allowing recert votes every three years rather then annualy. The dem 14 still stayed away. Living on the border I get to listen to a lot of local WI radio. There were a handful of senate republicans that did not want to separate the two bills as was ultimately done. What changed those senator's minds was the realization that the WI14 had no interest in actually engage in any meaningful compramise.

    The support from those unions was minimal. If I recall the numbers correctly, and I think I do, the largest of the 4 had 1100 members.
    Last edited by buck; 03-13-11 at 04:09 PM.

  10. #180
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    Re: Unions threaten Business

    Quote Originally Posted by randel View Post
    the teachers would see once a month how much their dues were...with me, it is 2 hours of straight time pay.
    I've heard that WI teachers pay over 1000 annually in union dues. divided by 12 = $83.00. I think it would annoy the hell out of me to have to write an $83.00 check every month.

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