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Thread: A Very Modest Victory in Wisconsin

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    A Very Modest Victory in Wisconsin

    I think this puts the whole matter in perspective rather succinctly.



    A Very Modest Victory in Madison

    The political theater under way in Madison invites both Democrats and Republicans to imagine that something more significant has transpired there than is in fact the case: By curtailing the collective-bargaining powers of some government-employee unions, Wisconsin merely joins the ranks of Colorado and Maryland — not precisely hotbeds of right-wing extremism...

    Gov. Scott Walker and the sober Republicans in Wisconsin’s state legislature are celebrating a victory, to be sure, but it is in truth a modest one: Under the new law, government workers will vote annually on whether they wish to be represented by a union, and the state will not be compelled to extract union dues from employees’ paychecks on behalf of the unions. Health-care and pension benefits for government workers will be set by the people’s elected representatives outside of the union-dominated collective-bargaining process, and wage increases will be indexed to inflation. Government workers still will enjoy salary-and-benefit packages that in most cases exceed what those workers could hope to command in the private sector, along with such hard-to-price benefits as enhanced job security.

    For this modest reform, Governor Walker has been compared to Adolf Hitler, and progressives have called for his assassination. For adopting collective-bargaining rules similar to those found in many other states and more generous than those found in some, the people of Wisconsin have seen their state capitol under the occupation of bongo-beating misfits while the necessary and essential business of state government ground to a halt, with Democrats fleeing the state in a cynical bid to prevent duly elected legislators from legislating...

    The bill has been called “extreme” and “draconian,” but is in fact the opposite of that: No state worker is set to lose his job, there will be no furloughs or salary cuts. The worst that government employees will endure is a requirement that they pay 12.6 percent of their own health-insurance premiums and 5.6 percent of their own pension contributions. And they all will receive something of value: a regularly scheduled vote about whether to be represented by their unions, which often serve no one’s interests but those of the union bosses themselves.

    And that is the real source of the rage on the left: Mandatory union representation, empowered by mandatory collective bargaining and mandatory dues deductions enforced by the state, creates an enormous flow of cash for Democratic political candidates and their pet causes. From 1989 to the present, five of the ten biggest donors to American political campaigns have been labor unions, including public-sector unions such as the National Education Association and the American Federation of State, County, and Municipal Employees. The overwhelming majority of those donations go to Democrats. The union bosses and their Democratic patrons know that giving workers more of a choice about union representation will diminish that power and reduce that cash flow. That is what this is about, for all of the cheap talk about “civil rights” — as though federal employees in Washington were being treated like second-class citizens because their unions do not enjoy the same princely powers until now wielded by Wisconsin’s...

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    Re: A Very Modest Victory in Wisconsin

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    I think this puts the whole matter in perspective rather succinctly.



    A Very Modest Victory in Madison

    The political theater under way in Madison invites both Democrats and Republicans to imagine that something more significant has transpired there than is in fact the case: By curtailing the collective-bargaining powers of some government-employee unions, Wisconsin merely joins the ranks of Colorado and Maryland — not precisely hotbeds of right-wing extremism...

    Gov. Scott Walker and the sober Republicans in Wisconsin’s state legislature are celebrating a victory, to be sure, but it is in truth a modest one: Under the new law, government workers will vote annually on whether they wish to be represented by a union, and the state will not be compelled to extract union dues from employees’ paychecks on behalf of the unions. Health-care and pension benefits for government workers will be set by the people’s elected representatives outside of the union-dominated collective-bargaining process, and wage increases will be indexed to inflation. Government workers still will enjoy salary-and-benefit packages that in most cases exceed what those workers could hope to command in the private sector, along with such hard-to-price benefits as enhanced job security.

    For this modest reform, Governor Walker has been compared to Adolf Hitler, and progressives have called for his assassination. For adopting collective-bargaining rules similar to those found in many other states and more generous than those found in some, the people of Wisconsin have seen their state capitol under the occupation of bongo-beating misfits while the necessary and essential business of state government ground to a halt, with Democrats fleeing the state in a cynical bid to prevent duly elected legislators from legislating...

    The bill has been called “extreme” and “draconian,” but is in fact the opposite of that: No state worker is set to lose his job, there will be no furloughs or salary cuts. The worst that government employees will endure is a requirement that they pay 12.6 percent of their own health-insurance premiums and 5.6 percent of their own pension contributions. And they all will receive something of value: a regularly scheduled vote about whether to be represented by their unions, which often serve no one’s interests but those of the union bosses themselves.

    And that is the real source of the rage on the left: Mandatory union representation, empowered by mandatory collective bargaining and mandatory dues deductions enforced by the state, creates an enormous flow of cash for Democratic political candidates and their pet causes. From 1989 to the present, five of the ten biggest donors to American political campaigns have been labor unions, including public-sector unions such as the National Education Association and the American Federation of State, County, and Municipal Employees. The overwhelming majority of those donations go to Democrats. The union bosses and their Democratic patrons know that giving workers more of a choice about union representation will diminish that power and reduce that cash flow. That is what this is about, for all of the cheap talk about “civil rights” — as though federal employees in Washington were being treated like second-class citizens because their unions do not enjoy the same princely powers until now wielded by Wisconsin’s...
    what a load of crap....this is payback to the unions for the asswhoopin' the republicans got a couple of years back....repubs figure if they can break the unions, then they can hurt democrats, and enjoy what they have longed for...one party, republican rule for years to come. what business is it of the wisconsin state government to dictate to the unions how often they have to have elections to certify? that is an internal union matter, and there are procedures in place in the union for decertification votes if enough of the membership decides they want a vote, the state has no business dictating this. for all the bs about 'balancing state budgets', all this is is union busting, as evidenced by the way walker and the republicans got this bill through...i'll say it for the millionth and tenth time cp, dues are not used for political purposes, that money is by donation by individual union members , and is separate from regular dues...some people here really do need to do some homework, and quit repeating misinformation about dues and how they are spent.

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    Re: A Very Modest Victory in Wisconsin

    Quote Originally Posted by randel View Post
    what a load of crap....this is payback to the unions for the asswhoopin' the republicans got a couple of years back....repubs figure if they can break the unions, then they can hurt democrats, and enjoy what they have longed for...one party, republican rule for years to come. what business is it of the wisconsin state government to dictate to the unions how often they have to have elections to certify? that is an internal union matter, and there are procedures in place in the union for decertification votes if enough of the membership decides they want a vote, the state has no business dictating this. for all the bs about 'balancing state budgets', all this is is union busting, as evidenced by the way walker and the republicans got this bill through...i'll say it for the millionth and tenth time cp, dues are not used for political purposes, that money is by donation by individual union members , and is separate from regular dues...some people here really do need to do some homework, and quit repeating misinformation about dues and how they are spent.
    Exactly. The Republican party has looked at the demographics and have rightly concluded that the party of the angry white man is going to have a very hard time winning elections in an America which is becoming increasing less white with every passing year. So the solution is to make sure that elections are conducted with as many advantages going to their core constituency as is possible. That includes making it harder for people to vote with ID requirements. It includes allowing corporations to buy elections through the terrible Citizens United decision. It includes going after and destroying groups like Acorn which registered lots of Democratic voters. It includes weakening labor unions which have been key supporters of Democratic candidates. It includes trying to take citizenship rights and thus voting rights from people born in the USA from immigrant parents who may not have entered legally. It includes providing plenty of voting machines in Republican leaning areas to make voting easier and the process shorter while shortchanging Dem areas of the necessary machines to force long lines and increased voting times.

    It is all part of an intentional effort to allow a minority to keep power in a democratic republic where the majority is suppose to rule the day.
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    Re: A Very Modest Victory in Wisconsin

    Quote Originally Posted by randel View Post
    what a load of crap....this is payback to the unions for the asswhoopin' the republicans got a couple of years back....repubs figure if they can break the unions, then they can hurt democrats, and enjoy what they have longed for...one party, republican rule for years to come. what business is it of the wisconsin state government to dictate to the unions how often they have to have elections to certify? that is an internal union matter, and there are procedures in place in the union for decertification votes if enough of the membership decides they want a vote, the state has no business dictating this. for all the bs about 'balancing state budgets', all this is is union busting, as evidenced by the way walker and the republicans got this bill through...i'll say it for the millionth and tenth time cp, dues are not used for political purposes, that money is by donation by individual union members , and is separate from regular dues...some people here really do need to do some homework, and quit repeating misinformation about dues and how they are spent.
    public employee unions are nothing more than dem organs. crushing them and destroying their ability to funnel taxpayer dollars to politicians who represent the intersests of the unions rather than the taxpayers is sound public policy



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    Re: A Very Modest Victory in Wisconsin

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    Exactly. The Republican party has looked at the demographics and have rightly concluded that the party of the angry white man is going to have a very hard time winning elections in an America which is becoming increasing less white with every passing year. So the solution is to make sure that elections are conducted with as many advantages going to their core constituency as is possible. That includes making it harder for people to vote with ID requirements. It includes allowing corporations to buy elections through the terrible Citizens United decision. It includes going after and destroying groups like Acorn which registered lots of Democratic voters. It includes weakening labor unions which have been key supporters of Democratic candidates. It includes trying to take citizenship rights and thus voting rights from people born in the USA from immigrant parents who may not have entered legally. It includes providing plenty of voting machines in Republican leaning areas to make voting easier and the process shorter while shortchanging Dem areas of the necessary machines to force long lines and increased voting times.

    It is all part of an intentional effort to allow a minority to keep power in a democratic republic where the majority is suppose to rule the day.
    the robbing a few peters to pay a lot of pauls makes it tough to win elections when you try to protect the interests of a society that needs more Peters and less pauls.



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    Re: A Very Modest Victory in Wisconsin

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    I think this puts the whole matter in perspective rather succinctly.
    yes, it does.

    Mayor Snorkum sees that those on the left refuse to gain perspective.

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    Re: A Very Modest Victory in Wisconsin

    Quote Originally Posted by randel View Post
    what a load of crap....this is payback to the unions for the asswhoopin' the republicans got a couple of years back
    so you could say it's Republicans trying to remove a major benefactor of the Democratic Party, or you could say it's about the Democrats seeking to protect that same benefactor (controlling actor?), or you could say it's about the Public Unions themselves refusing to give up their grip on political power.

    All strike me as simply different ways of looking at the exact same central issue: the key here is that this is about the lessening of Public Unions' political power and influence.

    .repubs figure if they can break the unions, then they can hurt democrats, and enjoy what they have longed for...one party, republican rule for years to come.
    didn't Democrats just get done with that? had an unfillibusterable majority in the senate, even, as i recall.

    Gosh, who were the major donors to the Democrats in 2008 when they won that supermajority? who were their "feet on the ground" and their political muscle? Who did the same in 2010 to try to help them retain that one-party rule?

    Gee wiz, the public sector unions? you don't say....

    I don't want a single-party Republican rule. I want a two-party system. Republicans and Libertarians.

    what business is it of the wisconsin state government to dictate to the unions how often they have to have elections to certify?
    sounds to me like they are worried that Unions might be abusing their members. given that up until now membership was forced, that wouldn't be too hard a thing to imagine.

    but now (and this is the real kicker) membership is no longer forced. I think even within that central issue of reducing the power and control of the Public Unions, that is the main thorn in their craw

    all this is is union busting, as evidenced by the way walker and the republicans got this bill through...
    given that it was the Democrats fleeing the state and refusing to do their jobs that forced them to pass the measure in that particular manner.

    but yes, in general this is about doing our best to remove the virus in our governing system that is public sector unions. "government" is not supposed to be it's own interest group.

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    Re: A Very Modest Victory in Wisconsin

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    It is all part of an intentional effort to allow a minority to keep power in a democratic republic where the majority is suppose to rule the day.
    i'm sorry, but didn't the minority party in Wisconsin just refuse to even allow the government to function rather than lose a vote?

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    Re: A Very Modest Victory in Wisconsin

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    public employee unions are nothing more than dem organs. crushing them and destroying their ability to funnel taxpayer dollars to politicians who represent the intersests of the unions rather than the taxpayers is sound public policy
    union members are taxpayers. people who support union members are taxpayers. therefore, union members work in the interest of some taxpayers.

    this isn't about unions versus taxpayers. this about taxpayers vs. taxpayers. citizens vs. citizens. like every other political battle.
    Last edited by ThePlayDrive; 03-12-11 at 09:39 AM.

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    Re: A Very Modest Victory in Wisconsin

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    public employee unions are nothing more than dem organs. crushing them and destroying their ability to funnel taxpayer dollars to politicians who represent the intersests of the unions rather than the taxpayers is sound public policy

    Thank you for providing instant proof to my previous post

    It is all part of an intentional effort to allow a minority to keep power in a democratic republic where the majority is suppose to rule the day.
    If I wrote your stuff for you this could not have fit better.
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