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Thread: A Very Modest Victory in Wisconsin

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    Re: A Very Modest Victory in Wisconsin

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    actually that's all we have to go on, when we are discussing such matters as actual governing policy or legislation. you cannot govern by poll; it is too fickle, too easy to twist, too easy to fool.... there is a reason there are multiple, competing pollster agencies. an election, hwoever, is fixed. it can only be changed at the next election, and it is undoubtably the will of the people who bothered to vote.

    it's either elections, or we trust to kings in all but name.



    which is why we have the next election as a corrective mechanism.



    to the contrary, he is standing on the only truly firm ground outside of the Divine.
    Legally yes, but we have elections to elect people to do stuff. That wasn't the point of my argument. He was attempting to make a moral argument, which is where it fails (given all that was discussed). Your counterpoint has nothing to do with my original point. Morally, there is no problem attempting to find ways to get government to do what you want outside elections, even if the population voted another way The tea party did that, as well as any other movement.
    Last edited by tacomancer; 03-13-11 at 10:03 AM.

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    Re: A Very Modest Victory in Wisconsin

    Quote Originally Posted by megaprogman View Post
    Legally yes, but we have elections to elect people to do stuff. That wasn't the point of my argument. He was attempting to make a moral argument, which is where it fails (given all that was discussed). Your counterpoint has nothing to do with my original point. Morally, there is no problem attempting to find ways to get government to do what you want outside elections, even if the population voted another way The tea party did that, as well as any other movement.
    A further point, you call it solid ground, but all the voters did was elect people, not a certain policy. Looking at polling, those people did not do what the voters expect, which is why their popularity took a dive. Which further invalidates the whole THE PEOPLE argument.

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    Re: A Very Modest Victory in Wisconsin

    Quote Originally Posted by The Prof View Post
    up to 40% of cta dues go to political action, members can opt out of that portion of their payments by writing a letter and resigning from the union

    not a wise career choice, however, for a public school teacher to dump on the union

    it would make for some pretty tense relations, for example

    Special Legal Notice to California Teachers: How to Get About a $300 refund of CTA Nonbargaining Expenses | National Right to Work Legal Defense Foundation

    Class-Action Lawsuit Pending Against California Teacher Union - by Karla Dial - School Reform News

    Teachers Boost Dues to Battle Gov. - Los Angeles Times
    hmmm...seems the lawsuit brought forth by the national right to work(for less, and no work place rights) was withdrawn and dismissed.....

    CTA | News


    snip
    The lawsuit, filed by the Virginia-based National Right to Work Legal Defense Foundation, had no basis in fact or in law. It was simply a politically motivated attempt to promote Proposition 75 which was supported by many of the same big corporations and wealthy individuals that bankroll the National Right to Work Foundation.

    In October, U.S. District Court Judge James Ware denied a request for a temporary restraining order by NRWC, stating he was not willing to extend the law as the group had requested.

    "Like Proposition 75, this suit was never about protecting workers; it was about silencing them," said Kerr. "CTA has a long record of compliance with all legal requirements in regard to the collection of dues and their use for political purposes. We are scrupulous in our record keeping and take every precaution to protect the rights of all members and fee payers."


    The NEA Fund for Children & Public Education: The Political Action Committee of the National Education Association
    also, as with the UAW, the NEA has its own voluntary contribution program for political donations...

    the california teachers association is affiliated with the NEA.

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    Re: A Very Modest Victory in Wisconsin

    up to 40% of cta dues go towards political action

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    Re: A Very Modest Victory in Wisconsin

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    the way we measure minority and majority as far as governing is concerned is via the ballot; which put those Republicans in power.

    Now you could definitely say that "collective bargaining rights" are popular. so are "right to work" rights and "self government rights", both of which, arguably, were on the Governors side.

    it seems that Americans are in favor of "rights" generally when polled; we'll see in the upcoming elections how they feel about public employee unions v republicans.

    either way it's immaterial. the fact remains that the minority party tried to shut down government in order to get their way.
    Government in Wisconsin continued. Services continued to the public. Even the Senate could still meet and pass many types of bills.
    __________________________________________________ _
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    Re: A Very Modest Victory in Wisconsin

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    Government in Wisconsin continued. Services continued to the public. Even the Senate could still meet and pass many types of bills.
    except for financial ones. which - as everyone here knows - is what ultimately causes the rest of government to function. but that is a good point that their effect was muted.

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    Re: A Very Modest Victory in Wisconsin

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    if - as you claim - the unions are beneficial organizations for their members, and if - as you claim - those dues don't in any way end up purchasing said unions' political power.... then the measure just passed can't be about reducing union political power because it would have no effect whatsoever upon it.
    ... honestly, i would really like to see an explanation of this. it seems several of the claims being put forth by the public unions and their supporters are mutually exclusive.
    Last edited by cpwill; 03-13-11 at 02:37 PM.

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    Re: A Very Modest Victory in Wisconsin

    I read somewhere that Walker never actually campaigned on restricting collective bargaining. Can anyone back me up on this?
    The Makeout Hobo is real, and does indeed travel around the country in his van and make out with ladies... If you meet the Makeout Hobo, it is customary to greet him with a shot of whiskey and a high five (if you are a dude) or passionate makeouts (if you are a lady).

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    Re: A Very Modest Victory in Wisconsin

    Quote Originally Posted by the makeout hobo View Post
    I read somewhere that Walker never actually campaigned on restricting collective bargaining. Can anyone back me up on this?
    i read the same thing, don't remember where though.

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    Re: A Very Modest Victory in Wisconsin

    http://politifact.com/wisconsin/stat...mpaigned-his-/

    Here it is. Politifact said it was false. So, any argument about the people electing him to do this is false.
    The Makeout Hobo is real, and does indeed travel around the country in his van and make out with ladies... If you meet the Makeout Hobo, it is customary to greet him with a shot of whiskey and a high five (if you are a dude) or passionate makeouts (if you are a lady).

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